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Active Shooter in San Bernardino, California Leaves Multiple Victims


#1


#2

Ah yes, The NRA and their red neck supporters won't have any gun control, "because it is people who kill and not the guns. Let us give everybody a free gun and and all that killing will stop". Huh?

When will we wake up and stop that craziness? How many innocent victims will still have to die before we see the light?
We are number one in gun killings, a multiple of any comparable European nation.


#3

There is one gun control. It is the one that was passed after J F Kennedy was shot. It only allows gun dealers to buy guns by mail. This way, the cost of guns have skyrocketed. I believe that the "alleged" gun that Oswald "used" cost around $12.00 dollars. In my eyes, the NRA is just a front for gun manufacturers to make fortunes off their guns.


#4

We are also #1 in police killings of mundanes , too . 1100+ last year . 1009 so far this year . By orders of magnitude more puppycides . As long as the police remain armed and equipped like panzer divisions , then you are rendering civilians defenseless in the face of what amounts to an occupying army . Additionally , the duty of a police force is to maintain public order , not to rescue or protect the individual citizen . Numerous lawsuits have established this . Why should the wolves be trusted with guns , but ordinary citizens not ?


#5

I was wrong about this year's body count of mundanes murdered by cops : Total so far for 2015 is 1,209 .


#9

How many were killed in the recent shootings and bombings in Paris?

What's a "mundane"?


#10

Have any newspapers assigned a columnist to a shooting du jour column ?


#11

Will the day come when everyone is openly carrying guns for protection?

"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 178

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803


#12

In civilized societies the cops are indeed there to 'aid and protect'.
Rather than equipping civilians for shoot-outs with the cops, we should try to become also civilized. And that starts with the courts. The only recourse we have in the meantime is pressure through social media and demonstrations.

The corporate media will not be of any help, since they are firmly anchored in the pockets of the armament industry and by extension in the gun lobby.


#13

Too much Babylon 5. :smile:


#14

Oh yes lamonte7 et al. Where is there any empathy or sympathy for the victims among the haters who daily post on this site. Don't bother I expect no answer as there is none that is relevant to one more mass murder with the motive yes unidentified. Wonder if the posters, though I would gladly support banning of the weapons used to kill these innocents, the unfortunately reality is you've with your hateful post become no better than today's killers.


#15

Yes, the NRA was long ago taken over by the gun manufacturers.


#16

mundane:

A person who possesses no metaphysical talents or qualities. Alternately, a person who is perceived to lack a certain form of enlightenment, intelligence, or talent. Generally used by the persons who possess said gifts or qualities, and is sometimes but not necessarily used in a condescending or elitist manner. Was used in the sci-fi series "Babylon 5" by the telepaths to refer to non-telepaths. Also used in some psychic, spiritual, or metaphysical circles to refer to those who have no such talents.

"The mundanes have no concept of magic, they're completely blind to it, our ways are strange to them."

So, in this usage, a commonplace, regular person.


#17

Thanks for the clue.


#18

Whereas you are such a paragon of empathy and compassion, as you again demonstrate here. /sarc


#19

That's a romantic concept but the reality is that we are already defenseless in the face of that occupying army, and in the event of the sort of civil war which you seem to hinting at, in which "the populace" takes up arms against the police, you can bet that you'll learn real quick just what it's like to live under an occupying army.

The police and the military have access to drones, body armor, tanks, plasma/high frequency energy weapons (yup), explosives, sophisticated logistics, etc. There is no scenario in which the "citizens" rise up and overthrow the police with their pistols and muskets. That ship sailed probably 200 years ago.

I find it ironic that Americans so regularly quote the "Founding Fathers" views on arming the populace. It's probably not a coincidence that it is in the country which based so much of its founding mythology on this concept that we find the most extreme gun cultures and violence of any stable nation.


#20

We are witnessing a rapid downward spiral of our "empire", likes Hedges and others write of...it is a barbaric and sad state of affairs we find this "nation" in. Some tell me I'm overreacting, but I don;t remember this kind of stuff happening especially with this frequency 20-30 years ago when I was a very young man...
With each shooting, we are almost, by default, becoming more numbed to the reality of what truly is happening to so many precious lives. And any minute now, I expect a word from that great French pastry chef, NRA guru Wayne La Pierre, saying, "If there were more good guys with guns, this wouldn't have happened!!!"
Empire in decline, and declining faster every day.


#21

The irony is our police kill more innocent American citizens than "terrorists" kill of US military combatants, the world over!

I'm in favor of neighborhood peace makers that respect their neighbors and live in the neighborhood. The nexus of police violence comes from their anonymity. It has to end. The rule of conservative-capitalist is a threat to humanity. Communities must create atmospheres that nurtures life and not violate it.

OTOH, we can call out the paramilitary troops and start shooting and start a more authoritarian head busting jihad to terrorize the citizens into compliance - of any order. Benefits are unbelievable and security is off the scale. Just keep in mind it will cost money, cause dissent and restlessness in the community.


#22

Where are your demonstration of compassion as posted on this site? Only and idiot or maybe a Trump supporter would have had no compassion for those who suffered the results of one more massacre of our fellow citizens or even those who are not massacred, but still subject gun violence. You're so inspired with your persona righteousness against the NRA even as other share your inspiration you have NO compassion for those effected by gun violence. No compassion for the innocent as you rave away from your typical pedestal.


#23

What is Babylon 5?