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'Actually, There Is Not a Lot of Debate': Sanders Forced to Correct Trump Nominee on Climate Science


'Actually, There Is Not a Lot of Debate': Sanders Forced to Correct Trump Nominee on Climate Science

Jon Queally, staff writer

Sitting before the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee on Tuesday, President-elect Donald Trump's nominee for Secretary of the Interior, Republican Congressman Ryan Zinke from Montana, was challenged by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) on his beliefs regarding climate change and questioned about what, if anything, he would do to protect federal lands from drilling and corporate exploitation.

In his first question, Sanders asked Zinke if Trump is correct when he posits that climate change is a "hoax."


On youtube, there's a poster by the name of SpaceRip who recently posted video shots of the earth made by astronauts in the ISS. The title of the video has something to do about Cognitive Change. The video is about the cognitive change that astronauts experience whilst up in the ISS. SpaceRip posted the video in hopes that it triggers cognitive change in the viewers. What's this cognitive change about? In the video, you see lights coming up from cities from all areas of all the land masses except Antarctica and Greenland. You see lights from shore to shore basically. There are no significant dark areas. Which means people are everywhere. Also realize, that the power for those lights has to be generated from somewhere. So, basically for each of those lights there's at least one smokestack. At the same time, in the video you can clearly see how thin the atmospheric layer is around the earth. So, its very easy to see how all that human activity belching out carbon compounds of every kind doesn't have far to go. Yes, after seeing that video its very easy to believe that scientists have measured a human impact on the environment. No, there is not a lot of debate in the scientific community. That video by SpaceRip is so worth watching.


"Under such a scheme, the federal government, taxpayers and wildlife would bear the costs through nominal retention of land title.": Anti-Social Reactionaries love socialism only not for the masses.


All-of-the-above energy...what a crock! Zinke, go visit Libby, Montana on vacation for a month or more and pray that you are not diagnosed with Mesothelioma. Butte ain't no beauty and will never recover from ravages of the scores of years of mining...NEVER!. As for turning over public lands to privatization, even the cattle ranchers of yore in Montana moved their herds out of the state to preserve grasslands for grazing knowing that overgrazing would ruin the food and water sources for their money-makers (cattle). Zinke and his ilk have no conscience when it comes to protecting wild places, wildlife, natural resources (only there for the taking), overseeing water quality/safety, preventing soil erosion, etc. When they look out on expanses, all they see are dollar $$$$$. Mining and fracking being the most destructive practices to date. Zinke makes Bruce Babbitt look like a piker.

Yet another devil incarnate anointed by the flaming orange Satan.


Reagan started this Republican trend by appointing James Watt as secretary of interior. Hard to believe that long ago Republicans cared a lot about conservation. Now they simply see land from the point of view of industry. How much money can be made from the land. And people who waffle on the cause of climate change should not be appointed to high positions. We are in the midst of a climate crisis, perhaps more accurately now a climate emergency. Because of the Republicans the US is giving up the lead on fighting climate change and it appears that China of all countries may be filling the leadership vacuum. China is now by far the biggest carbon polluter on the planet so leading might be appropriate but it is not exactly a country that Western countries are accustomed to following. Wow did the voters of Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin create a mess. Too many voters in those states failed to see through Trump's scam. Weren't they aware of the Trump University fiasco? That alone should have been a warming that things were not going to turn out as Trump promised.


I have visited both Libby, Montana and Butte, Montana. Yes, both are environmental, hell holes!


"...Perhaps at one time we viewed the Indian Nation as almost children-like..."
As if that has changed one iota, you cretin. Your treatment of them at Standing Rock shows very clearly that you still have the mentality of your butchering ancestors.


From the article, "an "all-of-the-above strategy" is regarded by climate experts and renewable energy advocates as a coded refusal to ditch fossil fuels once and for all."

The thing is, like most addicts, we'll promise that tonight and wake up tomorrow unwittingly scrabbling for some oil. Everything around me is either brought, gotten, or made cheap by imperial control of the petro$. Good thing for my bike and the outdoors, although crap!, the tires are probably oil and Pruitt-types are poisoning the "outdoors" (funny the distinction).

Tomorrow is only 18,000 days too short, but we as a collective people have to definitively declare a national boycott on Oil for 98% of it's uses; Not legislatively, but more a way to bankrupt Oil companies. Remove their power and see the Tillersons of the world watch their legacies dry up in disgrace.

While we're at it, let's legalize drugs, neuter the CIA. Spread Community Credit Unions, kill Wall St. Spread Indigenous and natural remedies, suppress Pharmdrugs. More farms. It's all so easy!
These cronies are powerful and influential because most of us don't have the courage, or legal financial logisitcal will to assemble a different society wherein these evils aren't needed.

Is anyone else imagining a nation where the privileges of cars don't dictate the shape of the society? Could we achieve the same level of abundant wealth and health through a massive system of zeppelins, solar and wind cars, cable trolley systems, windmills, mag lev trains, agridestruction of illogichitecture, Condensed Ecolopolises, and webs of public "r"oads for innovative leg-powered crafts? But what about global trade and the pace of civilization?, presumably burning a hundred millions of barrels of oil a day and billions still live in poverty and warfare. Is it even working?


It is truly miraculous that our earth has and is yet continuing to provide so much for so many and has and is yet withstanding so much abuse from her eight billion wasteful human recipients. Either there is an unseen God who remains in control of everything or we stand on the precipice of inevitable disaster. But even God doesn't like waste. Would Jesus drive around in an eight cylinder diesel extended cab truck all by himself? Somehow I just can't picture that. Would Jesus rip around through road, field and bush on a quad? I can't picture that either. But I can see Jesus contemplatingly enjoying his creation on snowshoes or on a bicycle.


How about on an ass?



Since there's no ice forming in the dead of dark winter at the North Pole for the first time in Human history, I'm going to say that we are going to experience door number two in your scenario: "we stand on the precipice of inevitable disaster" since we no longer have an air conditioner in the Northern Hemisphere.

As for the god part, I think old George has the answer:


Most people probably would agree with you, TJ. But among us are a few odd ones such as myself who have gotten some pretty mysterious but beneficial results from prayer at a higher than 50% rate such as George Carlin suggested. That was quite a funny skit btw.


Libby has done better than Butte but whenever I'm there there is a nagging in the back of my head that says not to breathe too deep... Not all of us in MT are as dumb as this guy, he has said whatever he needed to get elected. Now with this appointment he has done a 180 and folks here are not happy.


Thank you! All Native Americans/First Nations people were deemed "savages" at contact with the white invaders with the missionaries being just a brutal as were the "settlers" and the cavalry. Objectification validated the punishment, banishment, and cruelty...the white man was just taking the "savage" out of them. Virgin soil epidemics (measles, smallpox, flu, etc.) were introduced by the invaders and became the modus operandi to adversely disrupt and impact the demographics of the Native Americans/First Nations (reduce their numbers), which lasted well into the 1960's in South America...the Portuguese, Spanish, and English were equally culpable. Junipero Serra, the much-lauded Spanish Franciscan missionary enslaved thousands of Native Americans in California to build churches/missions where they became virtual slaves lashed to the farms of the missionary lands and all the while were stripped of their culture, language, dignity, and right-livelihood. Using "childlike" referring to Native Americans is an early attempt to whitewash and validate the cruel practices employed against these people. And the rest is history.


Actually there isn't any debate on his committee either. There are people on one side talking about reality and on the other side working to do whatever they can to protect the profits of the fossil fuel plutocrats. Just as both sides were aware that smoking tobacco caused cancer, both sides are well aware that global warming is indeed causing massive disruptions everywhere, but one side wants to stop things getting worse and the other side doesn't care. That is not a debate. That is a conflict of values.


Articles like this this and the '2016 was the hottest year ever' article impress me as a knitting circle recirculating their preconceptions again.

Here are a few propositions, to challenge the thinking here:

  • Climate is always changing. Ten-thousand years ago there was ice several hundreds of feet thick sitting on top of where I grew up in Minnesota. It had the power to remake drainages and relocate rivers. The upper Missouri River once flowed into Hudsons Bay. The change from then to now was significant, and the reverse could be described as 'devastating'.
    -- The Little Ice Age of the 1300s was rather devastating too. That happened before the age of man's big effect on the world. Life now is more pleasant than it was then.

  • Pretty much every scientist in the Climate Change community is paid by the activist community, either directly or by their control of governments. So everyone should consider whether they are speaking good science or mouthing what their paymasters want said. And everyone should note with alarm the too often practice of suppressing and trying to suppress scientists who don't repeat the party line.
    -- Those scientists construct models. Everyone of those models to date has over-estimated the amount of warming, compared to actual numbers.

  • The subheadline to this article declares "and causing devastating problems." What problems? Compare now to the glorious 1950s and 60s, when much of the world was run by explicit socialists and the world did not have Norman Borlaug and his grains. Then had such regular famines that many, led by Dr. Paul Ehrlich, believed that the only way to save the world was to stop, even drastically reduce, the world population. Now famines are hardly heard of, and again the ones that do occur occur in socialist countries like North Korea.
    (BTW, prosperity is doing a better job than Dr. Ehrlich at reducing population growth. Japan's population is decreasing, and Germany's, as Gunter Grass fretted about in a novel, is on the turning point of decreasing.)

I agree. And btw I can agree with other reasons for living more humble and modest lives.

Yes it is.


Thanks for the info! Can you provide a specific link to this video? Going on YT, I see that SpaceRip has many videos . . .


"Pretty much every scientist in the Climate Change community is paid by the activist community," . . .

You need to cite some specifics for this nonsense. Global generalities like this originate from corporate-backed right wing media. Regardless of quibbling about climate details (which can be done honestly), sweeping statements like yours are anything but "scientific."


Trump's endorsement of fracking yesterday was one of the most chilling things I've heard about this climate science reactionary. It made me almost wish that a gigantic fracking earthquake would swallow up his pretentious existence!

Or maybe just have some flames come out of his bathroom faucet . . .


We began transitioning into a post-debate society way back in the 1980s. With Trump, we might finish this period of any pretense of "debate." Americans have been powerfully re-educated, via media, into something quite different from what it was before the "Reagan Revolution," perhaps especially on socioeconomic ideology. Maybe without quite realizing it at the time, we gave the few corporate powers complete control of our politics and policies.

Corporate powers now have us by the throats. They are the primary source of our jobs, our means of survival. We will comply because there's nothing to fall back on (actual welfare aid ended some 20 years ago). I think most working class people have some idea of what happens to those who are effectively pushed out of the job market.