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All Left Hands on Deck. Step 1: Defeat Trump. Step 2: Challenge Biden

Nope there no real answer. It quite far gone. What should have been done should have been done 30 years ago and that an abandonment of the Democratic party and the formation of a third party.

We also started way too late to address global warming.

That does not mean that people should be resigned to doing nothing about either. A start needs to be made even if it accomplishes little as just sticking with the status quo just makes things worse and worse.

Extremely effective ads from John James against Peters, whose ads are pretty boring.
Then again, Peters is pretty boring – the classic back bencher touting minor achievements.

Let’s keep it real: The d-party is praying that Trump fatigue translates down ballot.
When you offer Republican Lite, I suppose that’s all you’ve got.

The Bush democrats don’t need “left hands” or suburban republicans.
The fake news is going to carry Joe over the finish line.

My understanding is James is pretty conservative, third party PACs have given him a boost, especially the Devos people. The Kochs are also dropping money into the race.

It’s all true that dumping Trump is job #1. But we have heard the same scenario about Obama: once he’s elected we can hold him to progressive policies. How did that work out? So I disgree with those who ask us to shut up about the Biden/Harris opposition to single payer and their aggressive foreign policy. One can advocate dumping Trump with Biden but still hold him accountable for his reactionary messages.

defeat Trump and work to organize an alternative to the money driven fools who run this country for their owners the corporations , their wealthy owners , and their own re-elections

a People’s Party(.org)

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The problem with your logic is that by voting for Biden, you castrate yourself and have nothing left with which to “hold him accountable.”

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Agree whole-heatedly with the Gentleman in this video, in Mind, heart & soul: I do not live in the U- but if I did, I would be dialogue with as many Trump would-be voters as I could, to spell out why it would be more than a disaster for the world (for our children and grandchildren) and for the US themselves, if it, the Trump, stayed there; and for the sake of humanly-sane democracy.
Please carry on working, with relaxed, healthy optimism that we will not have Trump for president, i.e,. don’t be desperate, but be thorough.
And of course, the notion that this ‘Trump’ is for ‘law-and-order’ is the biggest, and most absurd Joke: he is not for either Law n(he has no morality or ethics inside, and he flouts laws) nor order! DO NOT LET HIM GET AWAY WIT THIS One!
The Democrats need to -once-and-for-all destroy him at the heart of character, for he has none, just a gut-Brain and extreme Narcissism; he has no heart -that cares about anything but his own egocentric concerns; and no mind that knows reality as it is. He really does not know or deal in reality!
GO GO Go!!!

This (voting third party to make a statement or to get to matching funding on a future election) is typically stated as a recommended option by many progressive pundits, so I was rather surprised to hear Mike Figueredo make the argument in a recent video (~https://youtu.be/_3K2dRvUaxM) that he could not advocate that people in swing states vote for Biden if he himself wasn’t willing to do so (in the non-swing state of Oregon). I don’t know how widespread this view is - I have it myself on some things like recycling (e.g. I like to do things that if everyone did them, the result is more towards what I want). But on this presidential election, I’ve admitted that I’d have to do some thinking if I lived in a swing state. but in CA I feel very comfortable registering my support with the Green Party (regardless of a few things I don’t like about Hawkins - they are minor compared to the things I don’t like about Biden and Trump).

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It is strange to consider, but I’m sure many Americans are simply “over” this already… far too soon, though, because the MAIN AIM OF THE CAMPAIGN IS YET TO COME.

And these guys are right, which I never thought anyone would have to point out, but…

So stick with it, no matter HOW badly everyone behaves, and relax into a Biden Presidency, rather than another round of Trumpocalypse…

Third party? That’s a complete loser on the national stage. Being president is never easy. It’s not supposed to be!!! Of course, any president will be criticized. Last I checked it’s a hard and demanding job. But unless you’re a died-in-the-wool Republican don’t start sharpening your knives. At the national level we have 2 parties. That’s fine. Criticism of this or that decision is fine too. It helps keep a president accountable.

Truth is I, could argue the ‘but what about in swing states’ question either way. From another post here’s my case for voting 3rd party regardless:

Post: “I don’t expect much at polling locations in firm blue or red states, but those of you in swing states, and there’s some new ones now, must be diligent.”

My response: i.e., the greatest danger citizens must be prepared to combat is voter suppression during the election, not pre- or post-electoral declarations to his electoral rump about staying in office when - as is far likelier now than 2016 - he’s lost the electoral vote and courts have repeatedly rejected his attempts to curtail mail-in vote counting.

Whether liberal invocations of fascism, and unlimited power by Trump, are due to 2016 trauma, or a way of scaring voters to vote Biden vs. third-party doesn’t matter - a clear-eyed view suggests he’ll lose and his fascistic rants to an aggressive but increasingly isolated base will not overthrow an electoral win.

Vote progressive third-party - in non-swing states, it will deprive an elected Biden of claiming a “mandate” for his right liberal policies; in swing states, pre-election polling will force Democrats to publicly confront the possibility of losing due to refusing to negotiate with its large left-of-liberal flank.

Whereas if the D’s’ lesser-of-two-evil flank simply capitulates to the party’s right liberal candidate, D’s will feel no pressure to move left to elect Biden - who Wall Street + much of the financial class wants elected.

“Criticism of this or that decision is fine…It helps keep a president accountable.”

If the controlling right liberals of the Dem Party know that, at election time, critics will vote for your right liberal candidate regardless of whether she represents them, how does that “keep a president accountable”?

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I’m assessing the situation as Democrats have decided to not give very much, almost nothing in health care to satisfy a Medicare for All advocate (if they were smart that at least be saying they’d like to coordinate on possible reforms that make the M4A onramp easier in 2024). They have made their bed and now it looks like they will win without us quite easily. If something strange happens and they do lose, it almost doesn’t matter if you could argue that there weren’t enough maybe Green/maybe Democrat voters to make the difference, they love to just add all the Green party into their totals and see - “look we would have won” like a bunch of morons. So I don’t blame someone in a swing state who decides that progressives will actually get beaten up so bad, it’s better for us if Biden wins - I’m not sure I agree, but it is a reasonable position.

But I don’t see voting for Biden in safe D or R states by the limited number of progressive voters who even think about voting third party as making sense. I think we should all support third party (which at this point seems like the only major option to register your opinion on a true progressive platform is the Greens - like Hawkins or not, there is no contest on the platform). For any true safe states, there is no worry your vote will matter for Biden (for sure the case for CA, my state).

If Biden loses, it will be because voters stayed home more than because of the the irrevocable position of a comparative minority of Greens.

Thus, from my pov, focusing on this left group is a distractor from the real prob’ of the Democratic Party’s failure to represent much of the US electorate, and, as a result, lack of support or get-out-and-vote enthusiasm for right liberal policies.

At the same time, focusing on Greens has the effect of ‘manufacturing consent.’

What I mean is that liberal media represents Greens as just as big a problem as Trump - a crazily principled minority that fails to recognize the supposedly imminent danger of a Trumpian fascist coup - a hysterical claim repeated long and loud by liberal media without evidence other than Trump’s admittedly authoritarian rants to his hardcore supporters.

Don’t be like those nuts progressives, the Greens, is the message not only of liberals, but of much progressive media.

A combination of being traumatized by 2016, and expediently using Trump’s rants to drum up a hysterical fear of him that proves all must vote for Biden goes virtually unchallenged. Somewhere you said the swing state position was common among progressives - but, actually, I don’t see it anywhere, and, where it does appear (Solomon, Chomsky), it appears only barely and equivocally - something that cannot be focused on or be a true program during the ‘proto-fascist emergency.’

I should have polling data to back that up but I couldn’t locate any. Of course there is the issue of agreeing what a progressive voter is between you, me, and the pollster. I have a few progressives friends in a few swing states and only 1 is joining me in voting for Hawkins. Based on percentages the Green Party had gotten in the past, I am defining progressive to mean a lot more people than 1 or 2% - maybe something like 10% so in the past most of these voters either voted D or stayed home but I don’t have actual data yet.

Of course. I am only speaking to the misrepresentation by Democrats that always happens when they lose and the margin is less than the Green Party vote. It is guaranteed. Doesn’t matter if only 25% of all green voters would even consider voting for Clinton and a good 15% would voted Trump if they lost ballot access as the Ds did to the Greens states in PA this year.

On your main points, I basically agree.

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