And yet, and yet the sperm and the egg do make the zygote. However, that’s just a mass of cells., but there have many means to dispose of the zygote throughout history. A person develops from a zygote—but in looking at American history with the coming of the Spanish—in many areas of the world the Catholics murdered men , women and children. And in America the government did it to men, women and children they called Indians and slaves. Religions have so many strange and awful ways of disposing of the “Other.” Sadly, if Ms Coney Bartlett’s daughters were raped---- I wonder-----would she force them to bear a rapist’s child?
Smipypr at about no. 8 above nails it pretty thoroughly, but it bears repeating and further exploration.
Of course Ms. Barrett is not “pro-life,” and neither are the vast majority of the people who smugly wrap themselves in that comforting lie. “Pro-life” is probably one of the most brilliant bits of propaganda ever conceived (no pun intended). It is also one of the most dishonest. And “Pro-choice” is surely the most stupid from any angle, but that’s yet another story.
To Smipypr’s list add hunting purely for sport, and (meaning no disrespect to my omnivorous friends) eating meat. That is generally seen as an ethical dietary choice, but at this level of analysis one cannot be both omnivorous and “Pro-life.”
(At a deeper level, my first wife pointed out–correctly, in light of current research in botany–that no one can hear the wheat scream. But that takes us to an entirely different plane of philosophy. The Jains have something to say about it.)
But hey, you want to understand what “Pro-life” really means, check out Colman McCarthy, who at age 82 is still teaching and practicing Peace Studies and non-violence as a serious whole, including animal rights. The great Albert Schweitzer lived in much the same way, although possibly not quite as rigorously.
So yeah–while I’m not much of a poet, in this group:
Is a phony.
Nostrodamos was really close considering.
Apparently the gates of Hell are open and we have an apparition that revels in death and destruction about to be in position to shape the future of life on Earth, happy Halloween!
Why would I participate in halloween when paying attention to every day gubmit travesties, are far scarier than anything I ever experienced on halloween ?
you expected something besides rank hypocrisy from right wing religious bigots?? how naive and very sad
You are correct about hunting, meat-eating, and the human species’ specieism that has us believing we’re the righteous top apex predator who get to destroy all other flora and fauna and the earth itself for fun, economic growth, population growth, etc.
You are also correct that the web of life is based on organisms consuming nutrients, sometimes by consuming other living organisms, and that some people suspect that plants feel pain and alarm.
The authentic Jains have taken this to an extreme in which slow suicide via non-ingestion even of water is the only way to avoid causing suffering to other living beings. The Buddha tried this and ended up nearly dying of hunger. He abandoned that path.
It’s also true that human agriculture is almost always ecologically destructive.
Evolutionary biology installed in us a will to live that makes the Jain approach a non-starter for most people.
Thus, being vegan is obviously the least pain-causing dietary option.
While we can only speculate about what if any consciousness plants have and whether our eating them causes them measurable pain, we know for sure that the tens of billions of other mammals we torture and kill every year to feed non-vegans definitely share with us much psychological and physical capability for suffering.
By refusing to be a customer of the animal-murder industries by being vegan, we’re doing the best we can to meet our nutritional needs while creating the least suffering possible.
The biggest problem is that humans fit nowhere beneficially into an ecological niche (other than the less than .00001% of earth-conscious humans in some pre-contact indigenous tribes).
Wherever we go, we destroy intact ecosystems, flora and fauna.
Creating suffering for other organisms, and destroying the biosphere, is how our species operates, and it goes way beyond dietary choices.
We are a mass extinction event, and even if all of us became vegan, there are too many of us, and we’d still kill the biosphere, just at a slower rate, and without the horrible things that hunters, fishermen, and the animal agriculture industry does to innocent sentient beings.
Cornyn- you know how this “marvel” of a “woman” handles her career and children?? you call them “Au Pairs”…probably two of them.
Too bad most women have no chance at even one.
Yes, I see a bad moon rising. I see trouble on the way!
Friend, we’ve seen nothing but trouble for longer than many have been alive.
It’s time for a reckoning.
Yes, ever since I was young and my brother went to Canada when he received his VN draft notice. It is way past time for a reckoning!
My older brother did something a bit more drastic, while cleaning his rifle out back, it discharged and hit him in the foot.
His # was 24.
He was subsequently rejected from service.
THAT WAS DRASTIC! But it depends on how one looks at; not drastic if it saved your brother’s life!
He was 20 at the time. He not only lived, he finished his college education, soon after met a beautiful girl, had two beautiful children, and a wonderful life up until one late summer morning in a 1990 when he lost his life in a horrible accident while felling a tree in his backyard.
I saw him just a couple hours earlier when I had returned a chainsaw of his that I was using the day before when he helped me with cutting up a tree in my backyard that had blown down.
He was 42 when I lost him.
I would have rather it had been me.
I overlooked this comment amid a flurry of interruptions, distractions, and necessary obligations. On a first reading I thought I was with you up to the last paragraph. But upon a closer read, I think we are talking about different topics. I was talking strictly about the absurdity of the claim of “Pro-life” by anti-abortionists (without exploring the matter of abortion per se), and what being “Pro-life” actually entails (a spectrum, not a sharp dichotomy).
Your topic seems to be more along the line of all of the misdeeds of humankind. I don’t dispute those misdeeds in the slightest, but I take a different tack on them. First, as I said, I consider eating meat an ethical dietary choice. After all, the earlier members of our species from some 200,000 years ago until the last couple of millennia were all hunters and gatherers, to say nothing of their ancestors back to the earliest primates. Personally I was never too keen on meat, and when I learned one could live well without it I quit eating it in favor of the traditional grains and legumes “vegetarian” diet. I eat cheese, and an occasional egg, but I would guess that well over 75% of my calories are from plants and 90% or more of what I eat by weight.
But I disagree with your statement that “humans fit nowhere beneficially into an ecological niche” unless you mean only the humans of the past ten millennia (out of 200). The history is important. Our hunter-gatherer ancestors WERE just another species of primate, living as part of nature itself. The reason the Agricultural Revolution is called that is that with agriculture and animal husbandry we began the not-so-long journey OUT of nature. Thom Hartmann gives a good account of this journey in The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight (1999). In many ways–but definitely not all–we and nature are the worse for it. Some scholars associate the Agricultural Revolution with the Biblical story of The Fall.
Even then, the worst of our “achievements” have occurred only in the past 200-300 years, since the Industrial Revolution really got up steam, pun intended. And yes, the “wetiko” or evil spirit that led some of the early agriculturalists to claim dominion over the rest in the form of kings and priests morphed over time into the rapaciousness of those “Nobles” that made the transition from their feudal form to becoming money lenders and then industrialists.
The industrialists (“Capitalists”) were wrong about their system being “self-correcting.” That honor goes to Mother Nature, who (according to Guy McPherson) always bats last. Even a certain economist figured out that if something can’t go on indefinitely, it won’t. George Carlin got it too: “The earth isn’t going anywhere: YOU are.” In short, the artists have been on to this for nearly a century: Pretty much everything we do today is unsustainable, so will come to an end. What remains will depend on how long it takes for a critical mass of people to realize that it is happening and create that “[An]other world [that] is possible.” Too early and we remain stuck in our current wetiko; too late and we’re toast.
My sincere condolences on the loss of your brother.