Home | About | Donate

Another Big Step to a Major War


#1

Another Big Step to a Major War

Eric Margolis

Turn to page 214 in the book “War-making for Dummies.” You will find: “plan air operations right on your neighbor’s border, zig in and zag out, make rude gestures at enemy pilots, and shoot them down if you can.”

On Tuesday this week, the inevitable air clash occurred on the Syrian-Turkish border west of Aleppo. From what we know so far, two Russian SU-24 bombers that had been pounding anti-Damascus forces on the border briefly intruded on Turkish airspace for all of 17 seconds.


#2

In seeking to separate the false story from the actual events of war, I am reading "The Devil's Chessboard" by David Talbot. It explores the role played by Allen Dulles in the denouement of World War II and the immediate creation of the Cold War. That mentality--which viewed Russia as the quintessential enemy--has never been shed in spite of efforts to work Perestroika with Gorbachev.

As many understand, without a serious enemy, the gargantuan military industrial complex (that vacuum suctions so much wealth out of the nation's circulatory system and thereby inhibits real progress and viable investments in wiser energy technologies and related infrastructure) would lose its rationale for being. That's why as soon as The Cold war seemed to warm, the necessary Terrorist Events had to occur to set a new enemy machine into position.

Political analysis that doesn't take in the fact that some old die-hards WANT WW III fails short. There are
insane people at the wheel....


#3

"Russia, which accidentally shot down a South Korean airliner in 1982, is no angel either. Nor the US, which downed an Iranian airliner in 1988."

Did the Turks accidentally shoot down the Russian plane?


#4

If you define world war by the number of counties actively engaged in warfare or actively supporting it, then we already have World War III. If you define world war by the number of peoples displaced and the number of refugees created, we have World War III. If you define word war by the percentage of the world's population affected by war, either directly by its violence or indirectly by its continuing drain on the world's economies, then we certainly have World War III.

The author is correct to admonish two of the combatants not to escalate, but the notion that the war has not already gone global is misleading and, indeed, dangerous in that it fails to generate the necessary urgency to bring the current warfare to a halt.


#5

Well-stated comment, Siouxrose, with brief analysis of the history of this problem.


#7

There is so much chaos and so many players in the mid eastern theater that no one knows where the next shot will come from or why. That is the nature of chaos and it does play well in the hands of the weapons industry.


#8

There a number of issues regarding this shootdown still not widely discusssed and among them.

Russia claims it gave the location and flight patterns of their aircraft in the region prior to the airstrike to the United States of America. Putin has suggested the US then gave this information to the Turks who were then prepositioned to strike,

The report by Turkey to the UN claimed a penetration 1 mile deep into Turkish airspace and 1.5 miles across. In order to travel that distance in 17 seconds the Russian aircraft would be flying around 240 mph which is stall speed. If the aircraft was traveling at its regular speed when used in combat the time in Turkish airpsace IF it entered the same would be some 5 seconds.

A US source leaked to the press that heat signatures show that the Russian Aircraft was in Syrian airpsace when struck. This interesting as they leak this information even as the President and other officials publicly give support to Turkish actions. The Russians have also indicated that their own tracks and show Turkey was in Syrian airspace for 40 seconds.

The Turkmen leader who issued a video statement claiming his groups executed one of the Russian pilots is in fact an ethnic Turk. He is the son of a mayor in Turkey and a member of the Grey Wolves which is an ultra nationalist group.

The Russians have asked Turkey to provide recordings of the claimed warnings made to the Russian plane. The Russian survivor claims no such warnings received even as Turkey claims they went on for 5 minutes. Turkey refuses to turn over those recordings.

Turkey is unlikely to have launched this attack without tacit US support so why would the US want it and not want it at the same time? Interestingly the US has been opposed to Turkey allowing Russia to build a pipeline through its territory and into Europe as they do not want Europe yet more reliant on Russian Gas. That project has been cancelled due to this airstrike.

Note also that The US would really like a Kurdish State in the region. They feel this can act , like Israel , as another land bridge into the region as an independent Kurdistan would be more then a little willing to invite in US forces for defensive purposes. This would allow the US to maintain a military and friendly state on the borders of Turkey Iraq and Syria and thus exert dominance. Russia, prior to this incident would not have supported such a move. Russia has now hinted that just as Turkey supplies arms to Tatars in the Crimea and into Armenia , Russia is prepared to arm the Kurds.

When Saddam Hussein was preparing to invade Kuwait it was reported he met a US Official and was given the green light to do so. The US then used this as pretext to attack Iraq in Gulf War 1. It more then a little likley Turkey was played here by a duplitious US Government.


#9

Thanks for the link. Dave Lindorff says it well.


#10

" There are insane people at the wheel."

And these insane people, it seems to me, could start a third world war with Russia and that not only makes them insane...but very,very dangerous!


#11

From what I read on RT, or was it Telesur? The shooter was not simply an 'ethnic Turk,' which was what was initially claimed, but was, as also based on the facts you describe, a Turkish citizen, born in Turkey, and an extreme Turkish nationalist. A considerable difference from an 'ethnic Turk.


#12

Also note the attempt to put the Soviet shooting of the Korean airliner which intruded deep into Soviet airspace (and their military installations) on the level with the American shooting of the Iranian airliner in the Persian Gulf. The Iranian Airbus was in their country's airspace AND the American ship that shot down the passenger jet was ALSO in Iranian waters.


#13

And I daresay, for the first time, the world too WOULD support both the US and Russia in their efforts to create Kurdistan!!


#14

I think Jnestra made a very valid case that that war has already begun.


#15

Yes, just not a nuclear war....yet!


#16

Quite correct and this area of Syria is where Turkey smuggles in the arms to ISIS and other groups. The area in question is dominated by a mountain which gives visibility well into Turkey. Were Syria to reassert control they would be able to monitor movemnets inside the Turkish border and see those supply convoys go in and out. Turkey has suggested that this border area deemed a "safe area" claming it needed so as to protect Syrian refugees from their Government.

Erdogan has also stated that if Russia downed a Turkish aircraft IN SYRIAN airspace it would be deemed an act of war.


#18

It's Time to get out of the mideast apologise for the death & destruction.Obama & the gov. fucked up They are lying & cannot be trusted!


#20

At risk of belaboring the obvious, I see the US as the instigator of this incident in its entirety. Would the head of state of....Turkey (!!!!)....shoot down a Russian airplane even if there really was a momentary incursion? Is Erdogan poking the Russian bear all on his own? Balderdash! This is a neocon operation all the way. It achieves their goal of bringing us closer to war with Russia, an aim dear to the neocons hearts. (A nuclear exchange with the USSR was seen as "winnable" by the madmen in the Pentagon as far back as the sixties. IMO, the neocons, in their mad drive for world domination have a similar outlook. Remember, the US [We're Number ONE!! USA USA!!] is destined to rule.... by god, who is an American, btw!) And don't forget the increasing influence of nationalist christianism among high ranking military officers, especially in the Air Force. Think the rapture scenario is gone and forgotten among at least some of them? Don't count on it.


#25

Margolis is right about one thing: Russia has never abandoned the ancient goal of taking back Istanbul, (or Constantinople) and gaining control of the Bosporus and the Dardanelles. The Tsars looked south from the earliest days, seeing themselves as the heirs to the Byzantine empire overwhelmed by the Turks in 1453.

The Islamic fundamentalists are not the only ones in the region who dream of righting wrongs from centuries ago, and routinely call westerners "crusaders." ISIS preachers dream of drawing the forces of "Rome" to a final Armageddon near Aleppo. And of course, the very existence of Israel is based on the myth of reversing the conquest of ancient Judea by the Romans in 70 A.D.

So, I would not be surprised if some of the ultra-nationalist figures in the Russian hierarch would like nothing better than to drive the Turks out of the city of Constantine - and the foolhardy Erdogan may provide them with a pretext for just that.