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'Authoritarian Behavior': Israel Moves to Bar Tlaib and Omar From the Country

As a secular rationalist, I have plenty of objections to the “Jewish religion.” It’s an irrational, insane, genocidal religion based on ancient rantings of a desert people whose bloodthirsty god flooded the whole world, instructed the Jews to commit genocide and assisted them in that, asked a father to murder his son (and later murdered his own son) and committed other atrocities.
The irrational stupidity of the Abrahamic sky-father religions should be called out relentlessly.
Read the book “God is Not Great,” and you’ll get the picture.
One of the reasons Zionism and the state of Israel are so dangerous and dishonest is because of the Jewish religion, especially ultra-orthodox.

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I voted you up.
I am not an old testament reader.
There are many folks, smarter than I, who are.
And there is a book in the public library that explains the olde precisely.

But I am new testament - which is about love.
sharing, happiness, dancing and drinking at weddings!!
Living the beatitudes.
There ya go.
the golden ticket.

Here in America, we historically permit folks to practice their chosen religion.
I think that we should continue this.

Similar or tangential? See who FDR excluded from The New Deal; see the origins of secret societies, their membership oaths and the powers granted under the Tenth Amendment, et al. Cardozo was an interesting appointment.
" It’s a small club and you’re not in it ".
George Carlin

Yes know your overlords America. Don’t be against apartheid and genocide or else…

I fully blame our lawmakers for this, including and especially Nancy Pelosi. She has done nothing since day one but criticize, belittle, put down and rebuke these two (and the other freshmen progressive members of Congress to the point where Trump was defending her!!) calling them antisemitic when all they did is call out our perverse allegiance to a country that is nothing and should be nothing to us. This is on her just as much as it is on Trump, which is why I am not at all surprised that a swine like Netanyahu felt it was acceptable to take this unheard of next step toward the hand that feeds it (I mean let’s face it, we are the only reason Israel still exists).

The hate is real and it has been sanctioned. By BOTH sides.

Tlaib and Omar are the only two, out of nearly 500 lawmakers in our Congress, who arent bowing down before Israel (or worse stay quiet) and implicitly buy into the false notion that Israel was some kind of a victim here. Just because jews went through the holocaust doesn’t mean Israel gets carte blanche to do whatever it wants no questions asked. It also doesn’t mean that criticizing apartheid and genocide makes you an antisemite. Lots of jews dont agree with Israel’s actions.

Also unlike those nearly 500 lawmakers in Congress, they do not believe in putting Israel’s shithole apartheid (and what appears to be authoritarian) regime before that of our own country. They have every right to question Israel’s abhorrent actions in the middle east and our role in financing their genocide and war mongering. The only ones who are un-American are the 500 congress members who regularly fellate Israel and hand them billions of our tax dollars as aide so they can give their citizens universal health care and continue murdering Palestinians, while our people have to commit suicide or go bankrupt or die cause they cant afford healthcare.

Silver lining: this is jeopardizing US-Israel relations, which is a plus point for us. That is one relationship not worth having. Israel is a parasite. Also, Israel’s democracy is finished and will forever be tainted with this goon of a dictator Bibi at the helm. They keep losing allies and the support and good will of the people. Even the sheeple of this country who have been reflexively supporting Israel for years are slipping away and being put off. Israel is basically just shooting itself in the foot which is great to watch.

I agree with this 100% and in no way was trying to minimize what the extreme right in the U.S. is up to regarding support for the right wing regime in Israel and its fanatical supporters there.

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That’s veering into irrational intolerance, perhaps? There are many problems with ascribing Israeli venality to Jewish principles, as there are with wholesale condemnation of any theistic or atheistic form of worship. You can’t know what kind of experience a compassionate worshipper might be having, nor what role that experience plays in the worshipper’s life, so stay out of it. That’s frankly none of your goddam business,

Another problem is it’s not true. If Zionism were an authentic expression of Judaism, you might have a case. But Zionism emerged, by and large, from Jew-haters, and stands as a horrible stain on Judaism. You can’t be authentically Jewish and Zionist at the same time, in my view.

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I suggest you read the book I mentioned before: “God is Not Great.”
Also read “The God Delusion.”
And watch the movie “Religulous.”
You’ll see the direct connection between believing in insane gods and religions, and acting like a crazy person.
There is no “atheistic form of worship,” and people’s dangerous, personal theistic religious beliefs are definitely my “god damned business” because their religious organizations are tax exempt, and thus subsidized by me, and because their religious beliefs cause them to do things that harm the world I live in.
Religious beliefs are the primary motivator of those who oppose a woman’s right to reproductive choice and who shoot abortion doctors, who commit other terrorism in the name of religion, and who seek to poison our public schools with anti-science fables.
Judaism as revealed in the Torah is pathetic, dumb, and scary.
The book of Leviticus alone is filled with horrendous commandments from Judaism’s incompetent, ludicrous deity.
There is no legitimate, rational defense of any Abrahamic sky-father religion.
And before you clap back at me with more of your nonsense, read the books I cited.
You need to educate yourself before you engage in discussion about this topic.

Please refrain from speaking further in ignorance. Is this what we can find in your book, more offensive, intolerant ignorance?

I am an atheistic worshipper. It’s called Buddhism – primarily in the tradition of Thich Nhat Hanh. You know less than nothing.

All Abrahamic religions are garbage. The old testament, which is shared by all three religions, is basically a handbook for genocide and rape and murder. It is filled with passages describing a mean, petty, angry narcissistic god unleashing all sorts of pain and cruelty onto the population, from committing genocide against one entity to make room for another to instructing his followers to murder their own children as a dare to see if they worship his sorry ass or not. It is basically a book of punishments for anyone who fails to verbally felltate said god. And this book is the basis for Judaism, Islam and Christianity. So yeah I would not single out Judaism - Islam and Christianity aren’t better. The latter at least recognized the hideousness of the old testatment and at least tried to fix it by inventing Jesus, but even that’s backfired and the Christian church isn’t all that better.

Point being: all religions are garbage and born out of tribalism. Jews and muslims have actually a lot more in common than not and if they weren’t so blinded by their unfounded hatred for each other they would make formidable allies.

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This is a much stronger case than the anti-Judaism case I was refuting, for sure. I’ve personally gone back and forth on that one enough times that I don’t think it’s productive to fight over. You’re right to the degree that terrible things emerge from Abrahamic faiths. As we seem to be in a phase of global deterioration, the overwhelming influence is terrible.

But I could list all day the beautiful things which also emerge from these traditions. Gospel music, for instance (there’s an atheist singer in the superb Oakland Interfaith Gospel Choir).

I have no particular reason to either respect or to disrespect religious literature per se (as opposed to how it may be dominantly interpreted). To truly relate the sickening role that sham-pious Methodists played in “the peculiar institution” (as does Frederick Douglass) is just calling out hypocrites, not disrespecting sincere religion.

On a personal note, I’ll add that I grew up American Weirdo Protestant (specifically Christian Science), cast away that noxious wad as far possible around the age of 17 (as do most AWP children), and have regarded all sacred literatures as my “what the hell is this?” playground ever since. For me, it’s the most interesting poetic domain, whatever it all comes to.

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Reports from inside the NSA have for years bemoaned the fact that instead of legitimate intelligence gathering, they have become collectors of blackmail-worthy smut to be used to pressure UN agency heads, IMF directors, WTO members etc…, etc…, ad nauseam. The skill sets required for a functional intelligence community have atrophied, our country is less safe, and those holding those positions now are largely bottom feeders consorting with the likes of Epstein.

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Eh! I’m atheist but will gladly work alongside the various religious progressives out there - individuals + organizations.

Yea, I think anthropology and sociology explain religious belief better than…well, than religion’s explanations of itself. But it would be intolerant and counterproductive to make a big point of that in my political work: the good work’s the thing - if some progressives see their work and ethics in a religious frame, fine.

What, the Old Left should have shunned engagement with MLK’s movement, or stridently set forth the atheist-not-religious grounds of their participation in it, avoiding his church sermon-speeches, marching at a safe distance vs. marching “hand in hand”?

Atheist protesters of the Vietnam War should have told the Friends, or MLK, or Father Drinan, or Chaplain Sloane, Jr. or Thomas Merton to go hold their own religious anti-militarism, anti-war, anti-Vietnam war meetings and rallies?

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It’s the Zionists.

If Israel is the apartheid war criminal terrorist state, I hope the U.S. at least gets honorable mention.

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That’s “money doesn’t talk, it swears,” from “It’s All Right, Ma (I’m Only Bleeding).” Otherwise surreal.

Dude, you just keep burying yourself deeper and deeper in your own bizarre, twisted, inaccurate personal theology.
The Buddhism of the Pali Canon isn’t Thich Nhat Hanh’s Zen Buddhism.
There is NO WORSHIP in authentic Buddhism.
The Buddha never claimed to be a god, deity, savior, or object of worship, and explicitly prohibited worship.
And if you are really an atheist, you wouldn’t be defending the Abrahamic sky-father religions so vehemently.
Add to your reading list the book “Confessions of a Buddhist Atheist.”
You really do need to educate yourself before you continue commenting on this topic. Good luck!

I don’t need an education about anti-religious bigotry, and neither does this forum. But I’m sure you’ll stick around with your “humanist” poison. Sooner or later, this kind of bigotry usually unmasks itself as Islamophobia, or another traditionally British or Orientalist form of white supremacy.

Just because I’m an authentic atheist, and Buddhist, doesn’t mean I have to be a bigot like you. My form of worship is personal, not out of books. Some poetry has helped, but I’ve never needed to hate sincere religious expressions or feelings of fellow seekers, only blatant hypocrisy.

What possible advantage do you hope to gain for anyone by spreading hate? Anger is perfectly okay; that’s how people are built to react, sometimes. Your anger is misdirected.

Crabpot -
"Reports from inside the NSA have for years bemoaned the fact that instead of legitimate intelligence gathering, they have become collectors of blackmail-worthy smut to be used to pressure UN agency heads, IMF directors, WTO members etc…, etc…, ad nauseam. The skill sets required for a functional intelligence community have atrophied, our country is less safe, and those holding those positions now are largely bottom feeders consorting with the likes of Epstein."

Thank you!!
Watched the movie “Snowden” but was difficult to tell just what the support might
have been within the agency for him.

And thank you for the Epstein connection – this is another favorite tool of the right wing –
using perverts as we see on our Supreme Court now in Thomas and Kavanaugh.

Perhaps you also know that Allen Dulles actually created a camp at the CIA where men
were trained as pedophiles in how to “groom” children for sexual exploitation.
See: The Devil’s Chessboard by David Talbot - probably at your library.

There’s also been a death at the UN – questionable in a weight lifting bar falling on
the victim causing his death – (don’t have time to look it up right now) but also connected
in some odd way to child trafficking.
And, retired NYPD Detective Rothstein has made clear that our military is involved in
this trafficking as it also seems to be in drug running. (On quick look couldn’t find my
article on that, but it exists somewhere in my files.)
Rothstein can comment on child trafficking and sex trafficking back to a long career –
I’d say to 60’s/??

What is your point? Being surprised or not has nothing to do with anything.

Not exactly a match made in heaven? What does that have to do with anything?

What is your principled stance? Principles schminciples.

I had my parents pretty freaked out too when I told them I wasn’t going to First Baptist Church anymore. Within a few months, they were coming home to find me meditating in the front yard.

That was a great liberating summer.

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