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Bernie Sanders and the Future of Liberalism and Socialism


#1

Bernie Sanders and the Future of Liberalism and Socialism

Dan Arel

In the wake of Super Tuesday, you can find one of two Bernie Sanders articles on the internet. You have those writing his obituary, telling voters it’s over and it is time to support Hillary Clinton, no questions asked, simply fall in line with the party and obey your marching orders. Then you have the overly optimistic that want to explain how even after losing to Clinton, somehow Sanders still won.


#2

The struggle that needs to be fought is not socialism versus capitalism, but who gets to hold the screwdriver to the carburetor adjusting the mix between the fuel (capitalism) and the oxygen (socialism). Until we fully embrace the value that each component brings (along with the pitfalls of excess) we won't make much PROGRESS. (BTW, Bernie seems to get this the best in the 2016 cycle!)


#4

Whatever Standers has accomplished it will not go anywhere unless African Americans join in. In the primaries African Americans have voted overwhelmingly for Clinton. It is said that her landslide victory in Alabama was a primary record. Like many people I can't explain why Sanders has been doing so poorly among African Americans. One guess is that African Americans do not see a conflict between the 1% richest Americans and the other 99% as the way to go for them. The economic class war seems to appeal mainly to white voters and particularly younger white voters. Whether Sanders can do something about his lack of support among African Americans before March 15 when there is voting in Florida and Ohio remains to be seen.


#6

From the black friends I have who are for Clinton and those I've found on-line, it's because the Clintons, apparently, have done a lot of things for African Americans and that's why they are so loyal to Hillary. BUT....the thing that bugs me the most is that I'm finding that they have no idea how much Sanders has fought like a tiger for their civil rights for decades! I was told on-line that I was lying about that -- they don't want to hear it because they want to say with Clinton. But maybe Bernie needs to not be focusing so much on building the middle class because maybe it feels like people in the poorer class are feeling left out by him? Could that be it?


#7

Free enterprise and capitalism have nothing in common.

Free enterprise certainly but capitalism wants no part of free enterprise. Competition is what capitalism seeks to destroy. Hence the highest medical/drug costs.

Capitalism is anti free enterprise.


#8

I, and many others, contend that Senator Sanders actually presents a obstacle to the "political revolution" he calls for and to real socialism.

The Socialist Party, recognizes that in Sanders and his political allies are an obstacle to the development of a mass revolutionary socialist movement.

The problem isn’t merely that Sanders isn’t actually a socialist. It is also that his policies could actually pose a genuine danger to the socialism that we all desperately need. Sanders may well re-distribute some wealth to benefit poorer Americans and his campaign has pulled the word ‘socialism’ out of the garbage can of history and initiated a debate about both capitalism and socialism in the United States. But when those policies implemented by a supposed socialist fail it will be socialism that will be discredited.

Source: http://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2016/03/be-careful-what-you-ask-for.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FLkuul+%28SOCIALISM+OR+YOUR+MONEY+BACK%29


#9

From Merriam Webster:

Capitalism: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market


#10

Please see my reply to tomjohnson.


#11

The case of Sanders over the past year is a perfect illustration why Repugs understand, can always make Dem oponents look like chumps in the mass media. He preferss his IDEA of what could be, rather than what actually exists and he's got too much intelligence and integrity to get down, do what it takes to win. Robert Kennedy knew better, knew how to do battle and keep one's (new found) ideals. Just like with McGovern, I've gone and wasted my money.

By the way: who was it who erased all of those e-mails on that server? Nope, he wouldn't ask such questions, now would he?


#12

With TPP, TTIP, TISA and corporate tax "reform" at the top of Obama's second term agenda, "the future is now" and, as much as we don't want to face the facts, we know all too well what tomorrow will look like if Clinton is nominated.


#13

I have observed that blacks view the race issue as a silo that can be resolved by directly confronting racism.

Historically in the US and abroad racism has risen in direct proportion to the rise of income inequality. Income inequality must be resolved before you can start resolving racial issues. Seeing how US income inequality has continues to increase for forty plus years, resolving racial issues is becoming more and more difficult. The Clintons continue to enable the growth of income inequality while Sanders has always worked to reverse it.

Blacks supporting Clinton in record numbers confirms that they don't understand 1) the relationship between income inequality and racism, and 2) that Trump can't wait to walk over Hillary in November, so their votes for Hillary are defacto votes for Trump.

Blacks best hope and pray that President Trump doesn't put the same target on their backs that he has put on the backs of Mexicans and Muslims.


#14

Agreed, there have been too many times that Sanders has sounded like he is competing against the GOP in a general election, not a great strategy when competing against a party's divine candidate in a primary.

Part of Trumps success is his singular focus on the most prominent of his rivals.


#17

All I suggest is that we need a blend of socialism and capitalism as they are properly defined. I do not take my definitions from the feces flinging classes from DC and NYC, however.


#18

Ok so the US is not capitalist it is corporatist which is Mussolini's term for fascism.

Or as the writer GK Chesterton said

Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few capitalists.

Ie oligarchs


#19

Capital goods are tangible items. while I am no expert I believe only a tortured reading of capitalism includes Wall Street. Many financial products especially those that ground the market down in 2008 we're not tangible.

So to save capitalism perhaps Wall Street needs to be re-examined.


#20

Now the last part of the argument needs to be made: Hillary must lose this election to finally break the stranglehold of their corporatist faction on the Democratic Party once-and-for-all. If she becomes POTUS, that affirms her group for another four or eight years and puts off the day of reckoning for the neo-liberal wing and all they have done to hurt the core of the old Democratic coalition - the working class, poor and minorities.


#21

This has been my thinking since Bernie Sanders decided to run. If he doesn't make it we have to keep the revolution going. It shouldn't be hard since the whole country is angry about the rightward shift in this country. Not to mention the looting of the treasury.
A revolution must keep revolting and no matter which corrupt party wins, we have to keep fighting for our vision. I won't vote for Hillary out of fear of Trump. They are both corrupt and either way we will probably have to get in the streets to get their attention. I just wish Bernie would run Independent if they try to block him from the nomination.


#22

I agree with your argument 99%....the 1% where I differ is that Obama never was a progressive....he never had real progressive ideas to change anything....he just mouthed "yes we can", and "hope & change" to get elected, as he knew people were fed up with George W....
Obama is and was always a corporatist, elitist and even told the powers that be that he was,indeed, a New Democrat - namely a status quo Clintonista.
He lied, and betrayed & dismissed progressives that helped get him into office.
People say Obama is the first black president....he is not....
He is whiter than I am....


#24

I like to keep the idea of capitalism separate from the idea of financialism (and, in particular, hyper-financialism). The latter is really what is truly choking our world today. Too much smoke and mirrors hiding the truths.


#25

Well Bernie should point out Wall Street has nothing to do with capitalism as that is the lie that is told daily. He should be hauling Hillary over the coals on that one. Point out her defense of banks is an assault on real capitalism.