MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN—Ms. Nina Turner of Ohio, a state legislator and onetime candidate for Secretary of State, and probably the MVP of any spin room into which she steps, seemed a bit perturbed at Hillary Rodham Clinton's sudden transformation into Soul Sister No. 1.
Changing her tune? Maybe. Changing her stripes? Hell no!
My sense of it, too. Been listening to Democracy Now podcasts from last week and earlier this week. The folks HC sends to represent her can't effectively answer for her chameleon changes in rhetoric. Sure hope my fellow citizens don't buy it, either.
Sorry to hear that Hillary apparently "won" the debate.
C'mon, Bernie, we're counting on you to be even more clear about your positions and even more clear on where you can jab into her positions (esp. as a warhawk and an austerity monger and a Wall St. thug) in the next one. We know it's a lot that we're asking of you, but there it is.
Maybe bring on Col. Lawrence Wilkerson as a consultant, for starters. He has a few appearances in the movie "Drone," and he'd make great arguments against Hlllary's excessive ardor for murder.
Hillary, sweetie, you said: "... because I don't think our country can live up to its potential unless we give a chance to every single American to live up to theirs."
I know you believe this. My difference with you is that you believe it should start with the Rich and work down. It isn't that you've been bought by the system, it's that you have BOUGHT INTO the System!
Tax structures throughout the country need to change so that the cities like Flint don't get poisoned because they can't afford to A) Keep all their rivers clean, as evidenced by all the corporations that have dumped chemicals in the Flint River for nearly a century!, and B) Only have the power to balance their budgets on the declining services side because the wealthy folks own those politicians too! Somehow it isn't fair to tax ALL income in direct proportion to the magnitude of it, and use it all to the common good.
For some reason in two person debates there are debates where one candidate seems to be on their game while the other seems a little off. Remember the one good debate that Romney had where Obama didn't seem like himself. The next debate Obama showed up and Romney seemed more like Romney. Hillary Clinton was at her best last night and Sanders did not quite perform up to expectations. I think because of several factors, Sanders really needs to outperform Clinton. One factor is that she has almost all the superdelegates. Another factor is that as the primaries go on the majority of primaries are closed so Sanders loses his edge of having independent voters. Among Democrats only, Clinton seems to come out ahead. Also, Clinton's home state of New York has a lot more delegates than Sander's home state of Vermont, which I would assume is a slight advantage for Clinton.
I think one problem Bernie has is that he is a "gentleman" in the old sense of the word. He leaves a lot of things unsaid that would expose Hillary for her swinging like a weather vane for votes. He needs to understand that, with the Clintons, it's not a debate. It's a knife fight. I hope he comes better prepared, and willing, for battle next time.
I almost "spit out my gum" when she said that bit about how Obama stood up to the big banks. Too bad there's no "Liar, liar, pants on fire" component to these things.
I'm reading Matt Taibbi's The Divide: American Injustice in the Age of the Wealth Gap. The first chapter is an in-depth examination of the ways, and the extent, that Obama gave the big banks a complete pass.
There's a Democracy Now! interview about the book here.
Yeah, right....Hillary is changing her rhetoric only, not her loyalty and who she has served and would serve as potus - and it's not the 99% - Shillary will never bite the hands that feed her (and her family!).
Corporatist-TBTF banker shielding and support mean a lot more to the (hoped-for) Clinton Dynasty Red Queen than actually living up to her Bernie-forced progressive rhetoric and BS promises about working hard (hardly is more like it!) for the issues of Black Americans. the middle-class and poor - all the wage and interest slaves & most vulnerable and abused in our 1% dominated society!
This is the meme of the Greens, Hedges, and the crowd at Counterpunch.
" I also am an adherent of the political philosophy espoused by Benjamin Bow Hannaford, the fictional president created by the late Drew Pearson in two novels: in a democracy, the right things always get done for the wrong reasons."... Charles P. Pierce.
I'm neither an adherent of Benjamin Bow Hannaford, nor of Drew Pearson, most often the right things just don't get done-period! I don't believe for one minute that this lady, in her seventh decade, is going to change.
The only thing Clinton is changing is her rhetoric. This is to be expected from any opportunist politician. What matters about a candidate, at least to intelligent voters, is that candidates record and who is backing them. Clinton's phony posturing is just that.
You might want to listen to the debate yourself before believing that claim. It's available on youtube under the PBS Newshour archive, starting at the one hour point (after the Newshour). Check
Sanders did fall for the "Russian aggression in Eastern Europe" claim that the moderators made, but he was still obviously the more sane candidate on foreign (and other!) policy. Hillary still wants her Syrian "No fly zone" (aimed at Russia), a warlike move for sure.
I agree that Wilkerson might have taught him not to fall for that "Aggression" claim, but he was still the stronger debater last night, not Hillary. The guy above writes for Esquire, which is almost mainstream media, so don't take him too seriously. Judge for yourself ...
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Clinton's parroting of Bernie's platform won't last beyond the Democratic nomination, and certainly wouldn't be seen as more than primary posturing in a Clinton White House.
She's just paying lip service to progressive policies and ideals.The only way we're going to see them enacted is to get Sanders elected.
She already has changed... for the worse!
Thanks for the heads up. I will listen. And I'm relieved.
Once again Sanders won the debate according to every online poll, yet the pundits declared Clinton the winner.
Sanders owns the internet and Clinton's owners own the media.
I see it that way too. Bernie hears Hillary say she has a record of accomplishment (which she doesn't actually have) and he says "I agree that the former Sec of State does have a record of accomplishment." Bernie may be too much a loyal (if independent) Dem for his own good. Hillary has no reluctance to go for a low blow but Bernie is not throwing direct punches. He doesn't counter her directly. He lets her establish her point and then states his view but doesn't counter her point. She is fully aware of this and is phrasing her responses in such a way that Bernie's responses miss the mark of what she has established. This leaves the audience with the sense that her point was NOT countered and that makes it appear like she won the exchange.
Bernie needs to counter her statements directly. She says she has a record of accomplishment trying to counter Bernie's long record and that shouldn't be left to stand. Bernie should ask her to state that record and counter it. He doesn't seem to want to do that and now politeness is failing him. She knows his talking points and her machine has given her plenty of direct counters. They have studied his debating and are outflanking him. Hillary isn't carrying facts in her message while Bernie is not countering her "talk without the walk". Where is Bernie talking about how the Clintons helped create the prison industrial complex and harsh sentencing etc.? Where is he talking about NAFTA and trade deals and hammering that $625,000 speaking fees Hillary earned.
You begin to see why the Dems wanted more debates... it turned out that Hillary is the one who needed them not Bernie.
The big lie said often enough is what Hillary wanted/needed to do not Bernie. Bernie better stop playing so nice because she will say anything and he should call her on that stuff.
Bernie seems unwilling to nail her to the wall with statements like that. It undercuts his own message among the voters that he doesn't. Why is he allowing Obama to become a sainted figure like Hillary is doing? They are status quo both of them and Bernie should put some distance between them and him. Hillary is suddenly so lovey dovey with Obama because she wants the status quo Black vote.
We are being conned by oligarchy and with the media's help it is working. Hopefully people will remind themselves that the country wants change and keeping the same people in power will not get them that change.
Somehow to hear Hillary talk, Obama went after Wall St. by reappointing Bush/Cheney's economic team ...it is stunning that Bernie doesn't fight that crap. It is a mistake on his part.
Well flea, you put it better than I did..but yeah. Her record is there for all to see, and it is not a good one. She has an explosive temper, and if he could hit her with a good couple of examples of how she is being untruthful I think she would come unglued. I told my son that it was a mistake when she suddenly wanted more debates and he agreed. I would have said "sorry, you fought against more debates for months and now you are getting your wish".
He really needs to go after her.