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Canada's Progressive Party to Consider Radical 'Leap' to Green Economy


#1


#2

I'd like to see as part of this initiative a study the environmental and human costs of mining, manufacturing, shipping, and installing, tens of thousands of 65-ton GE windmills, storage batteries, and millions of solar panels and then replacing them generation after generation as they wear out.


#3

What is your alternative?

And where do you get the idea of this stuff "wearing out generation after generation"? Nothing wears out of a wind turbine but, perhaps, the shaft bearings. Nothing wears out at all on PV cells. Edison nickel-iron cells last indefinitely (more than 100 years) with only the occasional addition of lye electrolyte. Other forms of storage (supercapacitors, redox flow batteries, underground compressed air storage, conventional pumped-storage hydro have similar lifetimes with minimal maintenance. Most of the materials for these things (metals, plastics) can be recycled.

Sorry, but you aren't going to find very many anarcho-primitivist nihilists here...


#4

Sorry to say, but the NDP has not been much of a "progressive party" for a while now - and they really went south after the death of Layton.


#5

Considering that Trudeau is promoting CETA, TTP and TTIP I would agree with Notley that the manifesto is "naive and ill informed". Those "deals" will cripple enforcement of the manifesto. If Canada can fix this disconnect, I would consider the manifesto a positive "leap", more so than a "radical leap to the green economy".


#6

Industrialists are the nihilists. Why don't you go spend your life in a mine extracting the ores and rare earth minerals necessary for this glorious "green" future you're advocating? Or is that strictly for third world slaves that have been conquered by our imperial war machine? What happens when the mines run dry? Time to move on and steal some more land. Sounds totally sustainable.

It's definitely true that anarcho-primitivism will never be popular, it'll only ever be a correct diagnosis of the madness of this death-driven mass society as it expires of terminal techno-hubris; a hubris you are badly infected by.


#7

Yunzer you are basically correct but all things do wear out some like wind turbines and solar PV panels more slowly than engines, gas turbines, boilers etc. solar PV and wind turbines are a stepping stone to even more efficient technology. More efficient use of energy such as better insulation is another stepping stone. Shutting down and giving up is not an alternative. Moving forward is the only alternative.


#8

A lot depends on how all of these polIcy conventions play out.

There an old guard in the party that feel it lost its way in the attempt to gain power and that it has been taken over by what are in essence Corporatists.

There that newer faction that believes they can be both a party of the left while supporting big corporations and the resource extraction industry.

This latter group points out many of its union members work for big oil and want to see the jobs continue to come their way by giving them free reign.

Without a truly progressive leader who can pull this party back to the left I think the NDP a list cause.

A Naomi Klein as leader might do just that. A Thomas Muclair will be business as usual.


#9

It appears that Ms. Notley has confirmed that it doesn't matter what the name of the party is. If it's from Alberta, the agenda of big oil takes precedence.
Ms. Notley joins Mulcair in being a neo-con in an orange T shirt.


#10

Yes and this to do with that "job creation" nonsense as they continue to embrace Capitalism.

Here in BC just as example the NDP party is split as to how it will act on environmental issues. The Governing Liberals promote massive fracking expansion and the building of pipelines and Terminals to ship LNG to China. They also promote the site C damn project on the Peace River.

So the NDP , sensing there a taste for protecting the environment suggests that these projects need to be reviewed or curtailed. They get hammered in the media and by the Liberals and the media for being against "job creation for british Columbians". The NDP has strong support among the Unions and Union leaders claim these projects would put many thousands of Union members to work at high paying jobs.

The NDP retreats from its position now implying they not opposed to these projects but just want to ensure they done in an "environmentaly sensitive manner" which is the very things the Corporations promoting them claim they are doing.


#11

cc @nocubed

Anarcho-primitivism is not nihilism.

Without staking a position as an anarcho-primitivist, there's a lot missing from the Leap Manifiesto, and from an environmental movement that puts its entire focus on "green" energy.

Here's my post from the Ronnie Cummins thread:


The primary public focus of "concern for the environment" is on greenhouse gases and fossil fuels, with "the fix" being sold as "clean energy." But entirely separate from fossil fueled climate change, the Earth's ecology is dis-integrating from multiple, massive assaults. Highways alone, separate from the fuel used, have done massive damage to ecosystem integrity. "Land use," primarily from agriculture and "development" (especially transportation systems) have been the primary causes of the massive reduction in biodiversity. Climate change has now become the primary driver of devastation. But the World Wildlife Fund report (based on compiling the results of over 10,000 separate field reports) that half of all animal wildlife was wiped out in just 40 years, does not name climate change as a primary driver of this astonishing and ominous simplification of Earth's ecology.

The construct of "environmentalism" being promoted pretends that "green energy" will save the ecology and humanity. But the depth of economic revolution that is required goes way beyond windmills and batteries. We need a holistic, ecological and humanistic economy, that REQUIRES all economic activity to be supportive of ecological and social restoration. The beast must be reined in.


Feel free to call this nihilism. Actually it's just realism. We need to go way deeper than an energy revolution.


#12

All of this is too late. The 6th extinction leaves us with 8 to 18 years before our number comes up. We are loosing 200 species a day globally. We shoulda/coulda done this in 1970 with the first Earth-Day, oh well.


#14

Sure, that information should be included in the discussion. Bet you anything the "costs" are tiny in comparison to the fossil fuel system the alternatives replace.


#15

Good, get the discussion about LEAP into local communities on a widespread basis.


#16

" "I'm spitting angry," said Alberta labor leader Gil McGowan to the CBC. "These downtown Toronto political dilettantes come to Alberta and track their garbage across our front lawn." "
If i was to take the same approach as Gil McGowan, i would shout back angrily, "We don't want your dirty oil all over our lawns, in our water and poisoning our air." But i won't.
Some Albertans haven't learned, despite Harper's failed petro-politics, that refusing to talk about important issues while angrily demanding compliance to an anti-democratic manifesto funded by big energy, neoliberals, banksters and other super elites does not win the day. Notley taking one step forward after decades of Alberta stepping backward, doesn't save the day - sorry.
Time for progressives to double down and expose the lies and power dynamic behind the pretense of the pipeline economy. Demand an intelligent focused discussion about all the issues of Alberta's opposition to transitioning to a cleaner, democratic energy future.


#17

Some interesting comments but a lot of naivety,

The biggest user of fossil fuels in the world is the US military. They are exempt from any so-called international agreements. Not only exempt, but they do not even report their emissions.If this is the largest polluter wouldn't it make sense for them to start the clean up? Does anyone believe this will ever happen?

All supposed "green technology" of windmills, solar panels, nuclear, wave technology do wear out. The average life of a wind turbine is 15 years and the same for solar panels.

All of these green technologies are impossible without the mining and oil industries. All are made from materials that need to be mined. If there is such a thing as a 100 year life battery why aren't they now in all our gadgets?

No one on this thread could survive without the mining and oil industries. Not now or ever.

It has never been shown by any green activist, including Naomi Klein, which part of the last 300 years of global warming is natural and which part is human induced.

The Leap Manifesto is impossible. The country can never transition to a 100% renewable energy and attempting to force the NDP into such a commitment is nonsense.

To finish I will leave you with some interesting facts.
"A 1,000 megawatt nuclear or coal-fired power station occupies an area of 30 to 60 hectares (75 to 150 acres). A 1,000 megawatt solar power station would have to produce enough energy for an eight-hour day plus reduced energy production for the remaining 16 hours. The area required is 55.5 square kilometers. To do this with an efficiency of 10.27%, the area of the solar panels, space between panels to prevent shading and maintenance roads would have to be 128 square kilometers (50 sq miles; 12,800 hectares)" To do this would require the removal of all plants and animals in the area. This alternative is inefficient and unreliable in the extreme.