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Catching Clinton, Sanders Surges

Reality? Who in their right ( or left ) mind pays 2 poops to what Mara, Kookie or George has to say, about almost anything, except possibly, how the weather is in The Hamptons?

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It really hits me in the guts when some people suggest giving up on this rotten system and staying out of political engagements. I feel even if it is all smoke and mirrors, dog and pony show when real issues are brought to the fore front of political discussion it will if nothing else serve to educate the people. However with Bernie we are actually getting some results already, i.e. TPP and keystone pipeline.

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I like what you are saying but hope you are dead wrong!

Exactly, i wonder if there are clever elitist agents posting as progressives here at CD sometime suggesting we give up altogether because the system is in need of an overhaul.

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I like what Bernie Sanders is saying on the campaign trail that definitely needs to be said to a large audience which I hope he ultimately gets if he does end up challenging Hillary Clinton.

That said, Bernie Sanders is not beyond valid criticism for his many actions as Senator that absolutely run counter to your assertion that he is a “true socialist” and that he is all about changing corporate dominance of our political system.

If that were the case, then Bernie Sanders wouldn’t be a staunch supporter of Lockheed Martin manufactured F35s, which Bernie Sanders worked to get stationed in Vermont. Also Bernie Sanders successfully worked with the corporation Sandia that makes nuclear weapons (check out their website) to build a laboratory in Vermont ostensibly to only do research on solar technology. Sandia’s parent company is Lockheed Martin.

Given that Bernie Sanders has repeatedly defended the F35 as a necessary part of US and NATO military strategy, and the fact that the ultimate cost of that one class of military aircraft has been estimated to be one trillion USD I don’t understand why pointing this out is somehow unfair to Bernie Sanders. I would assert that it is an obvious inconsistency in his actions and his proclamations.

Also, Bernie Sanders makes no criticisms of the ongoing TPIP trade agreement being negotiated. The only criticisms you will find of the TTIP are on his website if you dig for it, and it amounts to Sanders criticizing a specific point relating to protecting cheese manufacturers of Vermont against the GI rules being negotiated. But that’s it. No public pronouncements about the same onerous corporate governance provisions that are included in the TPP. Why is that?

If I get a chance to ask in an open microphone at an event in San Diego, then I will, to be absolutely fair to Bernie Sanders.

I also still have a major problem with the fact that Bernie Sanders on many occasions in a broadcast microphone to millions stated his opposition to seeking criminal prosecution of those in the Bush Administration who took this nation to war based on lies. No one on this forum has any problem with criticizing Pelosi for “taking impeachment off of the table”, but when it is pointed out that Bernie Sanders was a proponent of that exact political strategy put forth by both Obama and Pelosi of “looking forward not backward” then myself and others pointing that out of Bernie Sanders are dragged through the muck of being “purists”.

Well okay, I’m a purist.

I might as well get this out too. Okay, I’m a troll because you know, only trolls are against support for a single class of killing military aircraft costing one trillion USD.

I do hope that Bernie Sanders continues to garner more and more support and trounces Hillary Clinton in the primaries and becomes the nominee.

If I see some movement on my concerns I will gladly vote for him.

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Your reply gave me a chuckle–thanks! In answer to your question please go and view the link below (apologies for the excess of profanity!) :

Bernie is pretty much forced to pledge to support the eventual nominee of the party to be allowed on the ballot as a Democrat in most primary states, especially NH. He had to say that. No, he’s not willing to burn the Democratic Party down if he doesn’t get the nomination, but that doesn’t mean we can’t. I say, if it’s Hillary in the general next year, then by all means, we won’t support her. It’s either the Green or other third party nominee, or leave your general election Presidential ballot blank. It’s WAY past time for the caving to the party establishment to end. Not one more corporate Democratic President, not Hillary, not anyone else. If they keep hanging on and selling the American people out to Wall Street nothing is EVER going to change for the better. We may be forced to end the current iteration of the Democratic Party in order to get one that truly represents the People. So, pledge now to NEVER VOTE FOR HILLARY!

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Your statement above reminded me of the following:
“Now witness the end of an age. Hope dies in hands of believers. Who seek the truth in the liar’s eye.”
(from a song with the quaint title “Walk With Me in Hell”)
I also hope that I am wrong–but after watching this pattern unfold over the past 50+ years I reject giving in to willful self-delusion.

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You’re exactly on track, and sadly, BS will betray us.

This is a man, after all, who voted for $8.6 billion in cuts to food stamps, just last year, something any Democrat of the 60s, 70s, or 80s would have died to prevent.

Some socialist, that Sanders.

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Thanks for that text. I saw the movie and remember the original context; 3 networks and PBS. Now, we have 1200 channels and, to paraphrase The Boss. " there’s still nothing on. "

Bernie/Elizabeth 2016 would be hard to beat.

Well, here’s a discussion thread on that. Compromise? Did something get added to the bill after the fact? I don’t know. As much as I like him, he IS still a politician. No bill is perfect, and Congress needs more progressives. Folks need to stop voting for “moderate Dems” … http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024400120#post1

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From a town meeting in May 2014:

Carl Gibson: “You mentioned wasteful military spending. The other day … I’m sure you’ve heard about the F-35 catching fire on the runway. The estimated lifetime expense of the F-35 is $1.2 trillion. When you talk about cutting wasteful military spending, does that include the F-35 program?”

Bernie Sanders: “No, and I’ll tell you why - it is essentially built. It is the airplane of the United States Air Force, Navy, and of NATO. It was a very controversial issue in Vermont. And my view was that given the fact that the F-35, which, by the way, has been incredibly wasteful, that’s a good question. But for better or worse, that is the plane of record right now, and it is not gonna be discarded. That’s the reality.”

My biggest problem with Sanders is that his opposition to injustice appears to be highly selective. He has no problem supporting a trillion dollar boondoggle defense program like the F-35, yet votes in favor of a massive cut in the food stamps program. He decries the corrupting influence of the Wall St. banksters, yet vows to support one of their most pliant and obedient tools if she becomes the Democratic nominee. While waxing eloquent in support of the downtrodden, he yet continues to offer carte blanche support to the murderous apartheid regime in Israel.

As far as I’m concerned, a person of true integrity is obliged to oppose injustice wherever it exists, not just in situations where it’s politically convenient. Eugene Debs, a true socialist, once wrote: “Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living things, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on the earth. I said then and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” I seriously doubt Mr. Debs would have much use for Sen. Bernard Sanders.

Of course, Big Doggie Bill Clinton was fond of saying that one should never let the perfect become the enemy of the good. Given his sorry record, however, perhaps what he should have said is that one should never let crass opportunism be mistaken for political realism.

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Talk about rolling over…for Republicans.

Bernie is a European style Democratic Socialist, which is not the same as a old style Socialist.He believes in REGULATED RESTRAINED capitalism.

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Liberals and progressives know Clinton is a neoliberal and Republicans are nutter fascists. A Clinton win leaves open the possibility of electing progressives. A Republican win means global warming, nuclear holocaust and no possibilities left. If Bernie loses, those are our real choices.

Well said. Republicans can’t win unless they suppress the vote.

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If food for hungry kids isn’t the line that must not be crossed, then there is no line.

Compromise? Read Sanders weasel-words on that, and weep:

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Then I seriously doubt if he would get elected in a system rigged by, for and of the oligarchy. Big Doggie Bill Clinton was wrong about some things, but he was right about “not letting the perfect become the enemy of the good”.

The choices are to roll over for the stupid party and wait for the societal breakdown and the revolution to come hoping we survive and the next dictatorship is better. Or to vote for the lesser evil until the evil is gone and only the good is left.

“And, you know, politics aside, the success of Sarah Palin and women like her is good for all women - except, of course —those who will end up, you know, like, paying for their own rape ‘kit ‘n’ stuff, But for everybody else, it’s a win-win. Unless you’re a gay woman who wants to marry your partner of 20 years - whatever. But for most women, the success of conservative women is good for all of us. Unless you believe in evolution. You know - actually, I take it back. The whole thing’s a disaster.”
― Tina Fey

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Those were horns not cellos

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