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Chiding Trump for Inaction, GAO Study Shows Climate to Cost US Taxpayers Trillions


#1

Chiding Trump for Inaction, GAO Study Shows Climate to Cost US Taxpayers Trillions

Jessica Corbett, staff writer

Federal watchdog's report serves as indictment of Trump administration's climate change denialism and pro-industry agenda

Whittier Fire

#2

20 years ago, the costs of the damage even at that point made clear that the US taxpayers would be paying for it – and bailing out insurance companies.


#3

Breaking down the beliefs of the 30% or so of the die-hard, human-caused Climate Chaos deniers, will be a long-struggle. To overcome the indoctrination ideology of this hard-core political block, who are often bigoted and bully-like, will take an over-whelming amount of effort by the 70% rest of We the People. We who practice: Love. Honor. Respect. Peace. Family.

Those who support the current Oval Office occupiers, their attitudes and beliefs were developed through their early childhood up-bringings through and including their K-12 experiences. Overly strict behavior modification by parents can convey violent personalities. Child abuse through beatings and psychological stress, over time, acts just like torture, until the child breaks or fights back. I, myself, lived through that. I had to accept banishment from my family, rather than going their way of racism and bigotry.

That troubles me to this day. But, I made the best choice, even though I live, today, in poverty that would not be the case, if I just gone along with the strict rules. I look around today and see the results in the adults who obviously do not see Life through my lens of Love. I recognize: The hate. The war. The lying. The segregation by economic class. The immorality. The denial of one’s own humanity that only can be overcome by Love.


#4

“Bob_Zavoda, post:3, topic:46206, full:true”]
Breaking down the beliefs of the 30% or so of the die-hard, human-caused Climate Chaos deniers, will be a long-struggle. To overcome the indoctrination ideology of this hard-core political block, who are often bigoted and bully-like, will take an over-whelming amount of effort by the 70% rest of We the People. We who practice: Love. Honor. Respect. Peace. Family.

Bob –
I don’t really think that it’s 30% or that it would be difficult … as we saw
during the Obama Administration and the LITTLE that he did to further
awareness of Global Warming, information was passed on simply because
it wasn’t as fiercely blocked …and the public began to understand and look
for a response to Global Warming.

I do agree that we should never underestimate right wing propaganda on
any subject – and “Climate Change” as euphemism for Global Warming
is part of that propaganda which W/Frank Luntz created.
It is intended to sound as though something natural is happening
Even a third-grader can understand “Global Warming” and the threat to
the planet and humanity.

I do agree that those under the influence of right wing propaganda can
be bullies – and that is true of Trump voters, NRA supporters, but also
those who believe Big Pharma and are frightened to even open their
minds to questions and challenges about Vaccines and the harm being
done to generations of our children.

Overly strict behavior modification by parents can convey violent personalities. Child abuse through beatings and psychological stress, over time, acts just like torture, until the child breaks or fights back. I, myself, lived through that. I had to accept banishment from my family, rather than going their way of racism and bigotry.

Agree with you … Both Stalin and Hitler are examples of young boys beaten by their fathers – severely beaten.

But this is a liberal nation as was clearly shown in the Bernie Sanders’
primary and the support of the public and all ages.
And has always been shown in polls by Elites which have been kept
from the public … but which Noam Chomsky often comments about.

We also know – and the Dem Party also very well knew if you’re familiar
with Rahm Emmanuel’s disdain for the party liberals who would dismantle
the MIC – and we also know that the only way the right wing can rise is
via secrecy and violence and stolen elections.

I hope you may have also seen the movie “Snowden” which makes clear
their fear of us as the reality which Snowden exposes is that Elites/NSA
do more spying on the American people than anyone else …!!

This nation is 84% and probably more against these wars – and we were
against them even before the wars. We are against the MIC.

I’d also suggest to you that after 50 years+ of corrupt right wing government
and voting on hack-able electronic computers, we really don’t know what
legitimacy anyone in office has. Imo, they found a way to put themselves
in office without any help from the public and to keep themselves there
without any help from the public.

Koch Bros/John Birch Society and other large corporations own both parties
and the White House.

Imo, again – the CIA moved into the White House long ago and they’re not
about to give it up.


#5

As long as it doesn’t come out of Don’s pocket, or that of his fellow “patriots,” there’s no problem.


#6

Historical precedents for confronting institutional fraudsters. yupprs… time for a Keiser report rant and review

Feel like a bunch of cryptofascists are looting the entire society?


#7

Our #1 world R&D priority, needing about 60% of the research funding, should be the inhibition and reversal of Eaarth’s positive feedback climate loop. Soon enough the natural feedback will overwhelm humankind’s contribution to the feedback. Teratons of carbon dioxide or the equivalent in methane will be released, blasting greenhouse gas measurements from the current 405 parts per million to over 1000 ppm.

Top product development targets, for me at least:

–Wind-powered automated snowmaking machines that use snow to change the albedo of tundra back toward normal, which cools the polar regions.

–Enhancing existing local snow shower activity by ionizing the air at ridgetop level (simulating the falling raindrops that knock electrons loose and drive thundershowers in a positive feedback loop) or by selectiviely adding humidity below certain cumulus clouds.

–Chilling the top 100 feet of the Arctic Ocean and similar oceans to enhance ice pack growth, back toward normal ice thicknesses.

–Deep root growing systems that sequester carbon in the top 50 feet of soil, and that also produce other useful crops.

We should expect to be spending $10 billion per year on deployment here. If we can head off most of massive nature-driven climate change then it’s a bargain for the world. The U.S. should be able to chip in a measly $1 billion a year for the world effort, seeing how Washington is blowing through hundreds of billions of dollars this year in hurricane and fire damages.

Another 30% of the research funding is for initial research to develop the next photovoltaic panel or the next electric car. The first 90% of PV panel development was all government-driven. The State of California forced early development of the modern electric car in the 1990s. So, R&D is the model and making up simplistic hallucinations is far less likely to do the needed job. Specifically, we need the following incremental breakthroughs:

–90% stored solar heat for retrofitting most buildings, probably using mini split heat pumps.

–90% less lifetime electricity use per passenger-mile in transit.

–Electricity storage methods for the 70% of the time when the sun isn’t shining and we need electricity.

There are plenty of lesser needs. Show us the potential fuel displacement and the lab will consider your gadget and pay you too. Yes, if you always pay good inventors you’ll get more inventions, what a novel free market idea, but if you pretend to pay the inventors they’ll be happy to design some pretend inventions for you. Gee, next if you pay factory workers they’ll show up for work next Monday.

The last 10% of effort needs to go into accelerating market-driven solutions. Once the market gets hold of a proven idea they run with it, and we can support this effort. A carbon tax isn’t a bad market idea, but if you think that a state carbon tax is going to be the be-all and end-all of fixing climate change, you’re still on planet Venus.


#8

Will they ever stop monetizing the situation…??? Just tell the people the truth. We are going to die…period… especially…as the nuke plants melt down…as of right now. We loose 400,000 people a year… from climate change…


#9

The article addresses the straightforward, up front costs of increasingly severe weather powered by climate change, costs that will increase with the growing disruptions and energy input of climate change itself. The article is presented as an effort to get the administration’s attention in perhaps the only way that can register with them. Right from the ‘bean counters’ mouth, as Sen. Cantwell put it.

But as many know, including no doubt readers and commentators of CD, the effects of climate change as presented in the article is just the tip of the iceberg. References in the article as to what can be expected by 2100 must have caused eyes to roll. If that’s the worse to come from climate change by 2100 it would be a glorious miracle. The very capacity for our species to sustain itself after destroying the ecosystems and their biological components that allowed for our evolution and has sustained our very existence ever since is zero. No conservation law has ever shown otherwise. If beginning at this moment, every person on the planet were inspired with 100% determination to do everything they can to turn the climate picture around…it may be meaningless. No take back button. There’s more than a modest chance, literally, that the worldwide extinction that’s revealing itself will include us. Sane people know we are at the edge. And may have already begun our descent. We can live without tweets but not without the necessary habitats to grow food. And they’re being destroyed. The feedback systems are activating as if by some prearranged demolition that’s now on autopilot. Will the last person please turn off the lights.


#10

I think u were responding to my comment … Yes … I am at the point t which I am just very succinct …I have done many comments here … I now frequent other sites which have a more tolerance for the abject truth …we r f*ed…


#11

Add to that- climate forcing. The illusion created by particulate matter that has people completely fooled about just how late it really is. As soon as industrial processes stop and reflective particles fall out of the sky, the temperature will rocket up. The information is out there. I don’t argue with anyone anymore. Denial is a mechanism for buying time to adjust to new, difficult knowledge. It’s hard to accept that all of ones life has contributed to the murder of a planet.

Add to that about 450 nuclear reactors. No…the planet will not be just fine without us. We have created a legacy that will last millennia. The argument about Earth’s resilience trivializes all the treasures that have been destroyed. An assigned dollar amount for the loss of a living planet is beyond offensive.
75% death of all insects in the last 20 years. The list goes on and on.
The rocks that were once believed to be dropped by glaciers that actually follow an ancient coastline, that were heaved up by huge storms.
All this perceptibly accelerating. The catalogue of wounds to the Earth is immense. Climate disruption is just one symptom. We haven’t seen anything yet. It’s called omnicide.
I am in hospice. I can’t speak for anyone else. I will embrace the trees, tend the garden, speak to the birds in kindness and love. I’ll try to be the kind of person that leaves things better than they found them, a little wilder, a little greener and comforting to the creatures passing through. Not- “and thou shalt have dominion over…”, but to give something back. Not take and take.
Does it make any difference? Maybe not. It does to me.


#12

Hello, theinitiate.

I ‘think’ you made a reply to me, although you didn’t use the specific ‘Reply’ link associated to my comment. But your reply ‘seemed’ to be directed to my remarks thus I’m replying to that. Whew, I hate to translate that into Japanese.

Actually, I was referencing the original article. It’s a coincidence that we had some parallel themes. Monetizing the cost of climate change seems more than justifiable, it’s being responsible. Especially when dealing with such morally vacuous human imposters as the Republican party and Donald Trump. However, the magnitude of what physical climate change represents, which is what I believe we were both addressing, is in a totally different realm than what the article presented. This understandably is not the best venue for detailing the stated science but you’re probably aware judging by the somber tone of your remarks. And that brings up another consideration of climate change. The burdening psychological drain it has on people. Knowing one may be witnessing the end of the ‘Human Experiment’ can have that effect on folks. And that horrifying reality is what the science is showing to be happening. At least 4 of the 5 ‘Great Extinctions’ in our planet’s history came about via a very rapid global temperature increase that the biosphere couldn’t adjust to. We now appear to be on the brink of a change that is occurring in a fraction of the time of previous extinctions. Well within a generation the various triggers such as the loss of sea ice to reflect radiation back out to space and not absorbed by the dark sea, higher temperatures creating more water vapor, itself the greatest source for capturing infrared radiation radiating from the planet, huge methane releases from both terrestrial and marine sources as the the once frozen methane gases, which are 100 times greater greenhouse gases than co2, are released in such huge volumes that the average global temperature can climb to what hasn’t existed for 2 billion years. When single celled creatures were the highest life forms. ‘Food security’ as it’s called will make virtually everywhere akin to Yemen. It’s not a happy scene. What extinction is.


#13

Interesting and thoughtful conversation between yourself and Bob_Zavoda !

Sounds like some of what I am reading in Thich Nhat Hanh’s “Love Letter to the Earth” (Zen Buddhist).

Many comments subsequent to the two of you are despairing - and Carlo Rovelli, quantum gravity theorist - in his small book “Seven Brief Lesson on Physics”, also gives us little chance of making it.

But I am impressed with your stats Greenwich, re ‘liberal country’ - 84 % etc… That has the ring of truth to it - and your comment on Big Pharma, and later the movie “Snowden”, which I did see, and finally:

That’s more than interesting - and it may be true, as I believe that it was some sort of ‘deep state’ that took out JFK and his brother, and covered both up, to this day.

Having said all that - the real world is not only about love, nor can retreating, literally, into Zen Buddhism be thought of as a realistic path to the future.

Many will have to suffer and die as this ecological catastrophe unfolds - many will no doubt sacrifice themselves, as some environmental protectors are doing nowadays, with more and more to follow.

I don’t think there are any analogues in the past to what is happening today - not in any meaningful sense.

The only thing futurists are reliably - is wrong.

The Internet is still here, and discussions like this - on the virtual commons.

The fight is everything - it is what we have always done.

As a mountaineer - it is important at times to re-focus on what strengths are left, no matter how dire the situation is, or rather, the imagination can be overwhelmed. That is death - sure and certain.

Therefore - don’t go down that path.

CO2 can be directly extracted from the atmosphere, we know how to do it now, we can vastly improve our current methods, and reduce the costs - but it will be expensive.

But there is no alternative that I can see - so which city, or state, will be the first to buy and test a prototype ?


#14

What part of weather weaponization don’t people want to admit to? The manipulation of the weather, along with hurricanes, earthquakes, etc are a laid out in military papers posted on line. Go to Geoengineering.org. or Aircrap.org, etc., and learn about DARPA programs that utilize Tesla technology. I’m angry. I kept saying that CO2 wasn’t the basis. I also said that warming was not a given since we are overdue for a mini ice age. The fires in California left trees untouched and plastic mail boxes untouched while metal cars and homes were reduced to ashes. Hello? Monkey hear, monkey repeat. It’s not climate change. It’s what the military industrial complex via DARPA is doing. Aerosol spraying is obvious. Storms that make right or left hand turns are obvious. But fires that leave trees unscathed and plastic mailboxes unscathed and reduce strutures and vehicles in cinders…like 9-11? Come on, people. https://www.aircrap.org/2017/10/19/california-fires-were-not-wild-jim-stone/


#15

Global Warming is also the Wild Card in all of our lives and as
scientists have been telling us “there is no way to say how all of
this will compound.”

I don’t see that we can continue on as we have been doing, dealing
with this government issue by issue, involving ourselves in elections
and pretending that life goes on as usual.

It seems time to stamp our government CRIMINAL and move to
start all over again, this time with citizens in charge.

Soon, as well, the internet may be taken from many of us as fees are
applied and tiers are established. Speeds controlled by cable companies.

You remember our cable companies – Comcast and Verizon – leaders
in the effort to spread vile pornography which debases females across
the internet for their own financial profit. And leaders in the effort to add
and/or incorporate pornography to what most subscribers consider movie
channels.


#16

Love what you said…


#17

We would have to extract… 10 -20 GT… of co2 a year… out of the atmosphere… that … is an impossible task… even IF we know how to do it… the scale is insurmountable… and let me ask… I have seen articles for some years now… on the “machines” made to do this extraction… SO, here is the 64,000$ question… how long will it take to suck up the amount of co2 that was produced by manufacturing just ONE of those co2 sucking machines… in other words… as we are manufacturing them, will we even suck up enough co2 to make up for manufacturing them in the first place… ???


#18

Patricia –

The subject you are raising – Chemtrails – and the long hidden language of "geo-engineering"
is little addressed because like the mountains of conspiracies by our government, and like
vaccines harming generations of our children, and like 9/11 and other “false flag” activities by
our government to suggest “terrorists” under our beds … FEAR is used to surround these
subjects and to keep citizens from actually looking into them.

Citizens don’t look up at our beautiful bright blue skies and white clouds any longer because
what they see when they look up is a grotesquely distorted sky of milky white and wide white
streaks pretending to be clouds.
Btw, for anyone interested, the campaign to create fear and ridicule on subjects like UFO’s
and JFK assassination begins with Operation Mockingbird run by CIA which was being written
two years before the end of WWII.

How many citizens would ever guess that some of what is released into our skies is Lithium?
Allegedly that actually happened over the skies of Oregon where I thought that the state had
opted out of the program – but maybe after all that’s not allowed.

For anyone unfamiliar with these programs – they have been active for probably 25-30 years
and they are international.

Like most of these crimes by our criminal government, it is those trying to relate just how
dangerous our government has become who are looked at askance because the tales are so
strange. And these are the stories, the programs and the operations where there is no
question but that they have happened and are happening. How much more don’t we know?

I do disagree with you as to the reality of Global Warming …
our scientists immediately began to see the damage being done to Nature at the beginning of
the Industrial Revolution. The population itself now at or near 8 billion makes it clear, as well.
The volume of animals slaughtered every day for animal-eating also makes it clear.
What we witness every day in our own homes and neighborhoods makes it clear.
750 nuclear reactors across the globe make it clear – all dependent on water sources in order
to create steam to create energy. Probably one of the most criminal ideas ever.
Btw, two nuclear reactors in Ohio are actually on Lake Erie … a source of drinking water.

and just what is in our drinking water? When we realize we’d almost rather not know … we know.

But, true, Chemtrails/geo-engineering and HAARP seem to be using to manipulate weather.

I also said that warming was not a given since we are overdue for a mini ice age.
The fires in California left trees untouched and plastic mail boxes untouched while metal cars and homes were reduced to ashes.

Can’t say I’m aware of any such reports, but the latter is reminiscent of 9/11 oddities.

And I would encourage anyone here unfamiliar with Chemtrails and geo-engineering to take
a look at the info available on the internet and especially YouTube – and LOOK UP!


#19

@PatriciaTursi and @Greenwich

All those who would serve the denialists’ cause and help confuse people about the science and reality of global warming get on your gulliblity based soapbox and help the con artists tell people that global warming isn’t really created by fossil fuels and human activity and that instead it is a mysterious conspiracy of many thousands of people in many countries to poison the air and the Earth with chemtrails!

Yes that is right! This conspiracy theory is based on the denial of the real causes of global warming. Somehow for some people all you have to do is claim it is a conspiracy and they willingly put aside their critical thinking.

For example:

Just why would people ( and this conspiracy involves thousands ) from the USA, from Russia and the Europeans and the Chinese and all technological countries poison their own people and most importantly - poison themselves and their children? Why? These chemtrails conspiracy nuts want others to accept that even though there is no peer reviewed evidence from scientists who have investigated these claims that it is proven because the chemtrails people say they have found evidence. People found evidence that crop circles were caused by UFO aliens who evidently thought of it as a human version of cow tipping!

The sheer quantity of aluminum and whatever else they say is being spewed from passenger jets overhead around the world and in all countries is an absurdity and an impossibility of scale on the order of Noah’s Ark transporting two of every species on a small wooden boat! The sheer volume of aluminum particulates and whatever else is claimed would take thousands of conspirators to manufacture and transport in secret. This is keeping in mind that these people are willingly poisoning themselves and their children too!

The question becomes why? At this point the conspiracy theory breaks down and the advocates will then say >>> “We don’t know but we know that they could do it because there are patents showing that they could”. Patents? Like the spraying of unregulated hazardous material needed a patent? Do they have these patent protections ( lol ) in case Russia tries to use our patented self poisoning method instead of using their own?

The costs of doing this Suicidal self spraying is never mentioned. Don’t forget we are spraying this on ourselves as well as elsewhere and that people elsewhere are also spraying it on themselves and us too! No one discusses just where does the money for this apparently mutual international suicidal behavior come from?

To hear the conspiracy theorists the fires in California are not due to global warming causing prolonged drought but because chemtrails caused the droughts. So guess what? According to the Chemtrails Conspiracy theorists >>> it’s not global warming - it’s the chemtrails!

Ever see moisture drip from your tailpipe in winter? Fuel contains water. Combustion with the air produces water. Expel this exhaust fume/water vapor mixture at 30,000 ft. And it instantly condenses and then freezes producing the water vapor/fuel exhaust trails that we see in the sky. An example of how people are either utterly gullible or conversely in equal measure con artists, it has been claimed as evidence that a plane will fly into or very near a previous set of chemtrails. Ooh how mysterious right? It is unless that person lives in a big city and planes have to circle before their chance to land comes up. So the traffic controllers assign them a ‘spot’ or slot into which they maintain altitude while circling until they are able to land.

This pernicious theory started by one man seeking to make a buck off the gullible, has become a chemtrails empire for this guy. Take heed that he wants you to call it geoengineering instead of chemtrails because the term geoengineering is a real thing involving many types of possible global efforts to alter climate change ( all of them risky and last ditch efforts at best). But it does confuse the issue and whenever scientists and others discuss actual geoengineering, the chemtrails people get brought up as if their conspiracy were the same as real science. It is a con and a really nasty one as global warming overtakes us.

So if you would do the dirty work of denialists and claim that human civilization is not the cause of global warming but chemtrails are… it is your choice to do so.

For shame!


#20

Wallace Broecker is a pretty smart guy. Everyone in the climate change & oceanography community knows him simply as ‘Wally’.

He is considered the dean of climatology - it was his idea - the ocean conveyor - i.e., the giant ocean currents which switch on and off more or less, leading to ‘abrupt climate change’ - that’s Wally, and much more - look him up on Wikipedia if interested.

Wally heard a talk by physicist Klaus Lackner on direct air capture, which Klaus claimed was not only technically possible, but economically viable as well. Wally didn’t believe it at first, but did his own calculations - and became convinced Klaus was right. Beside these two men - my opinion is of no consequence.

Gary Comer, the billionaire founder of Land’s End, heard of Wally, and was disturbed about the changes he personally had seen cruising thru the Arctic Ocean on his yacht. He and Wally got together, and Gary funded the firm which began technical research on direct air capture.

There are other initiatives underway since those early days.

Wally is a practical man - and quite the character. I think he knew climate denial and the political situation would prevent us from acting in our own interests in less drastic ways - you know - land use change for the better, scaling back drastically on fossil fuel use, etc… He knew, in other words, that we would end up desperate and behind the eight ball, which is precisely where we are today.

Michael Mann, in his short “Two Degrees of Freedom” note, just a couple of years ago, also came on board, if you will, with seeing that direct air capture via machines might be more and more necessary.

I’ve seen a few other climate scientists say the same.

The situation is only getting worse nowadays - and in all probability we will end up in true crisis mode.

Technically, according to climate science, and James Hansen and many others, if we were somehow to draw down the CO2 as quickly as we have introduced it into the atmosphere, really most in just a few decades, we might prevent the worst from happening.

When the majority of the population finally becomes convinced of the threat to our very existence - and if there are still functioning governments around, not a given, we will need those machines, and more.

Symbolically, when a government somewhere contracts out that first machine - we will have turned the corner towards sanity.

Symbols are an essential part of homo sapiens toolkit - always and forever.

Like the philosopher said:

“If you think you can or you can’t - you’re right”.

As the great polar explorer Ernest Shackleton said:

“Optimism is true moral courage”.

I don’t expect we are all courageous - that is why it is considered in such high regard.

All I can do here is suggest that the future can contain good as well as nasty surprises.

For now, being aware that there are alternatives to extinction is enough - soon - we will need more.