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City of Hoboken Files Climate Suit Against Exxon—'The Most Ruthless, Deceitful, and Unapologetic Climate Polluters on the Planet'

Originally published at http://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/09/02/city-hoboken-files-climate-suit-against-exxon-most-ruthless-deceitful-and

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How are you going to sue a company for pollution, when your very city, state and federal government signed and approved the existence of their production?

Also it’s pretty ridiculous to sue a company for the damages of a Hurricane because of pollution, when your own city did not heed the warnings from engineers for 40 years about the dangers of storm surge affecting coastal areas of the North Atlantic.

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Hi PSwanee:
It might sound like an impossible dream----but oil companies knew long ago and it’s documented, from oil to the gold digging and coal digging business which ruined peoples heaith and their land forever. There are quite a few documents which show that corporations know a lot. but still continue to diss the people and the land with permanent harm.
Exxon never did finish cleaning up the ExxonValdez disaster. And don’t forget the government and the military----after Hiroshima they knew the horror of Nuclear----but they went to the South Seas and practiced on the people there too. Sadly, the power of government can often make humans very inhuman. : (

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At least Exxon’s former CEO told the Truth about Trump“He’s a F***ing Moron!!” — Rex Tillerson.

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well, maybe they’ll hit a payday and get some of that lost revenue back. seems to be the national trend anymore.

Hi Unce Fester:
Oh Rex was in charge? Wow, maybe he can explain why he ruined wiIdIife and AIaskan Iives and got away with it!

Did he also tell the truth about Obama and Clinton? Gosh I hope so.

Obama bragged about building more miles of oil and gas pipelines than all other presidents. But of course rumpdump is more evil, or so the story goes.

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IIRC, Tillerson was CEO of Exxon when Tweetle-Dumb appointed him Secretary of State.  I assume this was a sug­gestion from Donnie’s ‘Uncle Vlad’, as Russia was negotiating with Exxon for some kind of deal involving oil develop­ment in Siberia back in 2015-17, around the same time that a Trump Tower Moscow project was being discussed . . .

As has been pointed out many times before, "When investigating a crime, ‘Follow The Money!’ "

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The cost of gas at the pump should reflect the real cost to the planet.
Cost externalization is criminal for all participants.
We are literally driving mass extinction.

“Dear future generations, please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum.”

  • Kurt Vonnegut .
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It’s not only NOT ridiculous, it has to start happening on a grand scale. The oil companies need to feel pressure and push back from many directions at once. Your argument is hollow.

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Yes, Rumpdump is evil. The point however is, we have to stop using fossil fuels. This isn’t about personality as much as it is about that fact. Don’t muddy the point. This is bigger than Trump and Obama …

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In case you get your hopes up, or just in case you missed it. ~https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/08/26/how-corporate-tyranny-works

So far, there has not been a single judge in this country with enough courage willing to stand up to the bullies (which includes donkeys and elephants), to stand up for justice, don’t hold your breath.

When it comes to universal mass genocide, the extermination of all mammalian life on Earth, most of the plants, and other animals, and all in the name of personal gain, for private profit - its simply not going to do to allow it to go on unimpeded for a half century and then then try and hold a person or two accountable later on. The only thing that con possibly work is not to allow it to take place in the first place - obviously. Sure Exxon can be held accountable, its a first baby step, buts that’s all it is. But by what mechanism could so much destruction have taken place in the first place, and how is it that nobody had power to stop it before it started. Life itself, on this planet depends upon answering those questions and putting in place controls to never allow, under any circumstance, the destruction of habitat, climate, the eco-system, and the cleanliness of our water air and food - not even for a short while. It has to be obvious to every man, woman, child, infant, corporation, politician, investor, lawyer, judge, and CEO that this is no different than mass genocide - a clear cut case of premeditated murder on a scale so large it has never been seen under any barbaric and psychotic tyrant in all of history. How is it that such maniacs such psychotic mass murderers can walk freely among us while we collectively die at their hand? The atrocities under corporate rule are beyond imagination - cold, premeditated and dis-compassionate, they are very clearly the acts of persons who are severely and chronically mentally and emotionally ill - so how is it that they rule over the rest of us?

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Here’s one more challenge by CD … post not clear to them … !!

THIS IS WHERE THE POPULATION NEED TO GO - LAWSUITS
AGAINST GOVERNMENT AND INDIVIDUALS WHO HELPED THIS
HAPPEN AND KEEP IT HAPPENING –

SOCIAL SECURITY, AS WELL –

POST OFFICE – SAME CRAP –

the fossil fuel industries have shown that they are NOT responsible industries–their lies are -quite literally–killing millions of people in every corner of the globe(worried about refugees??just wait until the land on the equator is uninhabitable as a DIRECT result of their criminal activity)–they are the in fact the world’s greatest terrorists, murderers, and are proven planet killers–simply-- they are worst criminals in the history of this planet–their crimes make Stalin-Hitler-Pol Pot and all the other very evil mass killers in history combined look like grade school bullies–their greed has put BILLIONS of people in harms way-causing an increasing death toll on every part of this planet-the loss of biodiversity(read plants and animals)-and the collapse of our ecosystems—then there is the crime of our politicians who have ignored science for over 50 years so they could get money for their campaigns from these killers–provided not only protection(including the cost of our military used for the purpose of resource theft-read blood for oil), are even now doubling down on their support of this killer industry(both parties–Biden just declared that he would NOT ban one of the most egregious threats to our ecosystems–fracked gas–a much more potent green house gas than CO2 and the support of which puts the lie to the politician’s who say they are worried about the environment–(those being almost every politician- and the majority of BOTH political parties-) --subsidizing one of the most profitable industries in the world to the tune of BILLIONS of tax payer dollars as the costs of the damage caused by their business models increases every day–these people should have their companies taken from them-their money used as reparations for the damage ALREADY done and the damage that is coming-their owners, executives, and the politicians who support them thrown into the closest jail for the extreme crimes they have , are now , and will continue to commit if they are not arrested-tried-and jailed–wake up --you think Trump is an existential threat–he is nothing compared to the institutional threat posed by MOST of our so called “leaders”–that being–the 6th Great Extinction-now in progress --just to point out–THEY DO THIS FOR THE MONEY

How bout a rule that for every hour of using fossil fuels an individual must assume a portion of clean up costs? So for every hour i spend typing my stupid ideas i will be required to clean the poop out of other less fortunate individuals (relatives donot count, they need be nonrelatives, ie strangers) that have succumbed to fossil fuel injury and illness. Maybe we could stop talking so much about how innocent we all are.

In many ways this suit is about much more, the pursuit of profits ueber alles, a.k.a. the American way. Good luck Hoboken and other communities that preceded you and that will follow you. Your leadership is appreciated and needed.

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As if USA’s legal system were not specifically designed to accommodate predators – including merchants of human flesh, historically. Suits like this invariably go nowhere in US courts. It’s silly to think our judicial system might be interested in slowing the destruction sown by the president & legislature. It’s actually the other way around: the judiciary is the most permanently pre-cambrian. The only point in a suit like this is to make that point again, I suppose: our judiciary is hopeless, like the rest of our so-called government.

But we already knew that. No need to pay any more lawyers to keep making that point, by losing in court, over and over again, imho. The revolution will not be litigated.

Don’t forget British Petroleum and Royal Dutch Shell.
Why should Exxon be singled out? We invaded Iraq just so Royal Dutch Shell could suck the Majnoon oil field. More than a million people dead as a result.

Can you provide a full copy of the reports created by Exxon on Climate change? I’ve only ever seen snipers of these reports in media sound bites.

The problem is you’re not just suing them for fraud. You’re suing them for indirect impacts of storms potentially associated with the risk of climate change. But all of your analytical evidence of the increased rate of severity that could be used to quantify how much pollution impacted the storm is after the fact - in other words your evidence against the action is largely post hoc and historically would be dismissible.

Now some federal courts have completely changed their legal precedent on this matter which is problematic because many of the arguments made by the judges have been incendiary. In the strictest sense of judicial review these opinions contradict existing higher court authority and should also be dismissible, but we live in a country with a changing legal system and maybe our understanding of these cases will bear a new legal precedent.

However if we go down this path I believe it is pretty dangerous for any long lived technology, and poses a interesting problem in which society will still be dependent on fossil fuel products yet turn around and blame the industry for all of its problems. Yet you can’t bankrupt the industry, because you still fundamentally need the products which are created. Logically in my opinion this makes the society look disingenuous, revengeful and legally in the wrong.

I find these arguments to also be historically moronic, because even if you knew the dangers of fossil fuels what we’re going to use in the 1960s-1970s? What were you going to switch the entire industry to lead acid batteries and 2% efficient solar- from an engineering standpoint that’s completely nonsensical.

Many of these companies created renewable divisions. Historically most of them went bankrupt or were sold off at a loss. The solar and wind and battery technology back then was garbage. There were better sources that outperformed fossil fuels in efficiency like hydro and nuclear, but notice how these movements DONT support those technologies?