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Critics Still See Holes in US 'Evidence' of Russian Election Interference


Critics Still See Holes in US 'Evidence' of Russian Election Interference

Deirdre Fulton, staff writer

As the U.S.


I have looked all over the net and so far have seen no hard evidence of Russian election interference. Anyone else found irrefutable evidence?

The way I see it, this hacking frenzy of bellicosity reminds me of the WMD's in Iraq. The warmongers and it's deep state, oligarchy want a war with Russia even though they so far... have only allegations.


Yes, he has white hands.


It's no surprise that the sociopaths at the FBI and Homeland(uber alles) Insecurity immediately revert to 1950s--style Red-baiting and a new Cold War with Russia as the answer---always that answer---to any situation. It will be 2017 in just a couple of days---does the entire goddamn government seriously think that the majority of people in this country won't see through---and resist---this kind of paranoid bubble-think?


I will not forget this happened before voting in my state, NM, on June 7. The real fake news (corporate MSM propaganda); this was without the E-mails. How do they justify this interference?: http://fair.org/home/action-alert-aps-premature-call-for-clinton-does-disservice-to-democracy/ or http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/05/gaius-publius-networks-are-colluding-to-declare-clinton-the-overall-winner-before-california-polls-close.html Democrats, Obama and Hillary supporters complain about the Russians and the undemocratic EC? Really?


The "regime change" pot calling the kettle black.

Neolibs and Cons want another profitable Cold War. They may have to take on Trump first, who's surrounded himself with generals and oligarchs.

Online Direct Democracy


"Russian President Vladimir Putin said Friday he would not expel any U.S. diplomats in retaliation for Obama's moves—"a surprisingly calm reaction," as the Guardian described, "that appears to be designed as an overture to the incoming U.S. president, Donald Trump."

Or, perhaps, simply a foreign policy run by grown-ups.


Replace 'Russian Election Interference' with 'Climate Change' and these articles read exactly like the crap coming out of the science denial crowd.

One security researcher is picked out who's argument is basically 'any one can use code once it is out there'.

The Intercept is never ever, ever going to accept anything from the US Intelligence or Law enforcement community There is no evidence that will ever be enough for them to concede.

The people comparing this to WMDs are flat out wrong. The State Department, CIA, NSA, pretty much all of the non-politicized parts of the intelligence apparatus said there was not any strong evidence for WMDs. It was the politicians and mainstream media that made that case.

Just stop trying to make this into some kind of coverup or conspiracy.


Do you include the annexation of Crimea as a 'foreign policy run by grown-ups'?


I found this excerpt from another article on the matter amusing:

"Trump not only said he didn't believe the intelligence community's assessment — he suggested that the CIA was not to be believed in general, issuing a statement Friday night noting that "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction."

"Several intelligence officials told NBC News they were deeply disturbed by that statement. There is no historical precedent for a president-elect publicly maligning the intelligence agencies he is about to lead."

(source: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-cia-thinks-russia-wanted-trump-win-n695131?cid=par-sy-gvtc-gen4 )

So it is "maligning" to state what is common knowledge and to point out a salient and proven example of their lying through their teeth to serve a political agenda to get us into a war. And they find it deeply disturbing that Trump would break precedent to do so. Blowback's a bitch. Frankly, I find the well-established precedent of not calling them out on their past lies and crimes much more disturbing.


It interesting that in all of this talk about "fake news" CNN claimed that Russia had ordered the closure of an Anglo American school in Moscow as retaliation.

As per this report this in fact never happened and was a falsehood on the part of CNN.


The Crimea was part of Russia up until the mid 1950s when it was transferred to the Jurisdiction of the Ukraine which was never an independent Country.

The Crimea vote overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia when it became obvious the Ukraine was going to break from Russia and align itself to the west. This does not meet the criteria for an "annexation". When Yugoslavia broken up into a number of Countries based upon the recognized right of "Self determination" it was applauded in the West. If the people of the Crimea feel they better off as part of Russia then of the Ukraine it their choice.

The Income and pensions of people in the Crimea is almost twice that of the people in the Ukraine. The Ukraine is undergoing financial collapse and its policy is being set by the Western Banks who are ordering it to sell off assets in return for loans. The Ukraine is worse off then the people of Greece.


Crimea has only been part of Ukraine since Khruschev changed the boundaries.
In 1991 Crimeans voted 94% to leave Ukraine.
In 1994 they voted 82.8% to allow dual Ukrainian-Russian citizenship
So the 2014 vote is fully in line with the expressed wishes of the populace going on well before Putin was a political figure.
Crimean citizens arguably have a more peaceful and prosperous life now than they would have as part of the Ukrainian failed state.


This is really about the drum beat for war with Russia over Syria and of course the deep fear of being cut out of the economic possibilities of the New Silk Road between Russia and China. The US is losing the number one super power spot they desire so much.
It will be interesting to see how Trump can confront China when Russia is so deeply involved with them. What a pickle he will be in, but at least we don't think he will try to go against Russia.


Actually, this reminds me more of the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" which LBJ used to justify sending in American GIs to Vietnam, i.e. invading. Turns out the "incident" never happened. But who cares about that?


Putin says he's waiting for Trump as he opts not to expel US diplomats

Vladimir Putin has refused to engage in tit-for-tat diplomacy after the US expelled 35 Russian diplomats amid a row over cyber hacking.

Just hours after the Russian foreign minster said he was recommending a symmetrical response, Putin said his country had “every right” to make such a move but that he would not “drop to this level of irresponsible diplomacy”.

He said his government would instead wait to see how relations developed under the incoming president, Donald Trump.

“We will make further steps to help resurrect Russian-American relations based on the policies that the administration of Trump will pursue,” the Russian president said in a statement on the Kremlin’s website.

Putin, mindful that Trump will be in the White House in just three weeks went on, in an almost teasing way, to wish Barack Obama and his family, Trump and the American people a happy new year. He invited “all the children of American diplomats accredited in Russia to the New Year and Christmas celebrations [Orthodox Christmas is celebrated January 7] in the Kremlin”. ..

Maria Zakharova, a foreign ministry spokeswoman, launched a stinging attack on the outgoing US administration, writing on Facebook: “The people who have spent eight years in the White House are not an administration – they are a group of foreign policy losers, embittered and shortsighted. Today, Obama officially proved this.”

Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian prime minister, wrote on Facebook: “It is regrettable that the Obama administration, which started out by restoring our ties, is ending its term in an anti-Russia agony. RIP.” The Russian embassy in London tweeted a picture of a duck with the word “lame” written on it, and called the Obama administration “hapless”. ..

“Reciprocity is the law in diplomacy and international relations,” Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said before Putin’s statement. Lavrov said he was recommending that Putin order the expulsion of 31 diplomats from the US embassy in Moscow and four from the consulate in St Petersburg.

Lavrov also suggested Russia would cut off the use of a warehouse in Moscow and an embassy dacha on the outskirts of the Russian capital, in response to US moves to deny Russia access to two recreational compounds in the US.

However, Putin said this too would not happen for now. “We are not going to make problems for American diplomats. We are not going to expel anyone. We are not going to forbid their families and children from using their usual relaxation places during the new year’s holidays,” Putin said.

Russian officials were widely quoted praising Putin’s “wise” move and hoping for better relations under a Trump presidency. Sergei Zheleznyak, an MP and member of the foreign affairs committee, called Obama a “bad Santa” and said he wanted to “ruin the holiday period for lots of people”.

Russia plans to send a special government plane to the US to pick up the diplomats affected by the US expulsion order. Earlier, a diplomatic source told Interfax that many of those affected were struggling to find tickets back to Russia as planes were full because of the holidays. The foreign ministry said 96 Russians, including the 35 diplomats and their family members, were being forced to leave the US.

Smooth as a Judo master .. let your opponent defeat himself by his own aggressive moves ..


Statement by the President of Russia

December 30, 2016 15:15
We regard the recent unfriendly steps taken by the outgoing US administration as provocative and aimed at further weakening the Russia-US relationship. This runs contrary to the fundamental interests of both the Russian and American people. Considering the global security responsibilities of Russia and the United States, this is also damaging to international relations as a whole.

As it proceeds from international practice, Russia has reasons to respond in kind. Although we have the right to retaliate, we will not resort to irresponsible ‘kitchen’ diplomacy but will plan our further steps to restore Russian-US relations based on the policies of the Trump Administration.

The diplomats who are returning to Russia will spend the New Year’s holidays with their families and friends. We will not create any problems for US diplomats. We will not expel anyone. We will not prevent their families and children from using their traditional leisure sites during the New Year’s holidays. Moreover, I invite all children of US diplomats accredited in Russia to the New Year and Christmas children’s parties in the Kremlin.


Many progressives were just as dedicated to defeating Clinton as hard right Trump voters. Trump being an erratic thin skinned right wing fool didn't matter, nor that he might have a friendly deeply right wing Congress to work with. Hell, I read a lot of folks here defend Russian meddling as if we deserved the outcome for past CIA involvement in other countries' elections.

Of course, in reality, Russia appears to have meddled, the FBI director appears to have influenced, and the Republicans clearly won. Clinton had obvious weaknesses, but combine everything and we are where we are.


That's not how I remember it. In fact, I have a pretty vivid recollection of the head of the State Department, Colin Powell, backed up by the head of the CIA, George Tenet, delivering a WMD presentation which they purported to be very strong evidence, and which was characterized at the time as a "slam dunk" case. It ultimately turned out to be utter hogwash, and a special commission was set up after the fact to examine the failures. The commission conclusion was that the United States Intelligence Community was wrong in almost all of its pre-war judgments about Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction and that this constituted a major intelligence failure.

"The Intelligence Community’s performance in assessing Iraq’s pre-war weapons of mass destruction programs was a major intelligence failure. The failure was not merely that the Intelligence Community’s assessments were wrong. There were also serious shortcomings in the way these assessments were made and communicated to policymakers."

There is some difference of opinion over whether the intelligence agencies spearheaded the misleading, or allowed themselves to be misled, but in either case, in light of the catastrophic unreliability of evidence they claimed was solid, it is not unreasonable to now hold them to the standard of proof they really should have been held to back then.


Right?? It's some really strange Noam Chomsky Original Sin Syndrome (TM). Everything is America's fault.

I can not understand how people can't seem to simultaneously hold the idea that Clinton was a terrible candidate and the DNC screwed up big time AND Russia meddled in the election.