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#DebatewithBernie Takes on Trump vs. Clinton


#1

#DebatewithBernie Takes on Trump vs. Clinton

Common Dreams staff

A lot of people watched. And (nearly) everyone has an opinion.

But as Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton and her Republican rival Donald Trump faced off in their first face-to-face televised debate on Monday night, one pundit in particular revived a popular hashtag from the primary season to offer his real-time reaction to the evening's spectacle:


#2

Bernie, why trash Trump and not Clinton? Trump is evil, but Hillary is the more effective and all the proof you need Bernie, is HRC threw you and millions of your acolytes under the bus at that democratic con, called a convention and you never said a word! You even sold out Jill Stein by throwing your support to HRC when most of your supporters detest the woman! Shame on you Bernie!


#5

A Green Party Vote is a Wasted Vote

I voted for Ralph Nader in 1996 & 2000. After 20 years of running candidates for US President/Vice-President the Green Party has been an abysmal failure. Don’t waste your vote like I did.

1996 - Ralph Nader/Winona LaDuke 0.71%
2000 - Ralph Nader/Winona LaDuke 2.74%
2004 - David Cobb/Pat LaMarche 0.10%
2008 - Cynthia McKinney/Rosa Clemente 0.12%
2012 - Jill Stein/Cheri Honkala 0.36%
2016 - Jill Stein/Ajamu Baraka ?

[source]


#6

I hope Bernie tells us today why he has insulted our intelligence and integrity by trying to push a candidate on us who has done the very same things he describes in these tweets about Trump.

Would the average observer be able to tell that the candidate Bernie wants us to vote for actually supports hydraulic fracturing, financial fraud, more war in the middle east (and who knows where else), tax cuts for folks with six-seven-eight figure incomes..... and volunteered for Goldwater?

I'm getting kind of sick of the way our corp/gov/media society has grafted itself onto the internet in attempt to control the minds of the people who dwell there. The way these politicians try to appeal to millennials and older folks at the same time is completely nauseating.


#7

So vote for Clinton or Trump then - how is that not also "wasting your vote?" I'd love for someone to give me a good answer to that question.

I vote in every election, but I never somehow manage to "waste" my vote. I vote only for people who have earned my vote. I don't try to vote for people, enter relationships with people, or enter into contracts with people who lack a basic level of integrity and decency. Hey, we all make mistakes. We should all try to learn from them - step one is admitting we have made them.

No. It is not the Green Party that is increasingly a dismal failure, it is our democracy. The sooner people accept that, the sooner things can get better.

Edit: I also have a hard time believing you voted for Nader twice (against Clinton in '96 and Gore in '00- really?) but are totally willing to vote for Clinton now, when the 3rd party vote clearly has the highest chance in decades to make a real dent. I also have a hard time believing you thought that Wikipedia chart would somehow prove your point.


#8

I realize now that with this comment, I have offended all of the paid bots in the audience. For this, I sincerely apologize.


#9

This is how the politics of fear works. CDs feel they need to report the story and they feel that if they stand back too far they will be marginalised. But how to get close without offering credit to either candidate? Talk about a side issue and inadvertently embrace lesser evilism...


#10

The logic that only a vote for a winner is a vote that counts is EXACTLY how lesser evilism works. Let's face it - if the winner won by just two votes then your vote for that winner was also a 'wasted' vote as they would have won anyway. To follow your argument you are effectively saying that people should vote for whoever they 'know' is going to vote as even coming second is losing. Your argument destroys the whole point of voting which should be to demostrate how you think and what you feel - not to conform to a set of self-fulfilling prophecies of the media machine. Please set your mind free.


#11

VOTE JILL STEIN! The entire Earth needs her and CommonDreams --with due respect to your hard, intense work-- must stop ignoring her.
Thank yoi


#12

Bullshit.

A vote for the duopoly is a wasted vote, as the country goes from bad to worse under every Democrat and under every Republican president.

And stop posting the same post on every thread, you waste of time. Yes i am rude to you because you are rude to us.


#14

Thank you so much for doing this. It's Bernie's take on these issues and his take down of baby man trump I REALLY wanted to hear. I slept through the debate and feel great. I just don't have enough anti nausea medication to listen to the two "frontrunners" for any longer than a minute or so at a time.


#15

This one sided stream of tweets from Bernie Sanders is further evidence that he was and continues to be disingenuous when he repeatedly claimed that he was a man who “tells the truth” to the American people.

He generated a lot of money from those who believed he would be telling the truth during this “election cycle”.

To quote Norman Pollack:

“An honest position would be to recognize that America is no longer a just polity, and instead, a class-state tipping toward fascism. Of the two candidates and their supporting parties, both favor wealth concentration, and neither accepts basic principles of international law.”
(from CP article----http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/09/27/the-great-debate-proto-fascism-vs-the-real-thing/)

I agree with the gist of this statement by Pollock and I believe it is an important statement to highlight in the context of this article and Bernie Sanders.

I disagree with Pollock's belief that America was, at one time, a "just polity". My edit to his statement would be as follows based on my beliefs:

America never has been a “just polity”.
This is a country founded on ecocide and genocide which has paved the way for a class state that tips towards (if not fully embraces) inverted totalitarianism.

Does anybody here really need to hear a "take down" of Donald Trump?

Is this getting to the root cause of collapse and will it make a difference?

As long as a critical mass dismisses the neoliberal, war hawk, oligarchic life blood that is HRC/the DNC machine AND the RNC (i.e. the duopoly)--- than the answer would be a resounding "NO".


#17

Bernie Sanders began his campaign admirably, bringing attention to grave issues such as oligarchy, dirty money in politics, inequality, injudicious wars and trade deals. When Sanders appeared to be losing, Jill Stein offered him an opportunity to join the Green Party. -- Sanders instead becomes cheerleader for the Democratic Party. (wish i knew what was said at the meetings with Hillary and Obama).

Sanders cannot change the Democratic Party from within, some of his supporters probably feel betrayed. Propaganda and gerrymandering is rampant.... There is no doubt that powerful media sources can make or break a candidate (or should I say, celebrity. lol). Seriously, that is the unfortunate reality. Towards the end of Bernie's campaign he got hammered by the media and although he was persistent he eventually caved in.

Another example, a terrible, unjust media hit on Jill Stein:

Excellent piece of journalism by C/Dreams.

More examples:

Top DNC staffers did not resign because the coffee tasted foul (thanks to Wikileaks for exposing that disgrace) - Source: Wikileaks and:

"Democratic Party" huh, a more fitting name would be Neoconservatives, I'll explain... Bush (41st former president) father, Prescott, helped the Nazis - Source. Hint: Neocons (imperialist interventionist, injudicious wars, for profit wars).

And I should also point out that the Clinton's are friends and have family ties to the Bush family. Source.

And of course Clinton introduce harsh Neoliberal reforms and bills that seeded many issues we have today. More than 46 million Americans are homeless, many of them are working poor, 1.6 million children are homeless. And Mass-Incarceration (For-Profit & Debt Prisons) is hell. --- Hillary didn't just sit back and drank wine in the gardens of the White House whilst she was First Lady, she was actually very supportive of those bills and reforms for example: Source.

Here is 'one of many examples regarding "Voter Purging"

For many decades oligarchy has infiltrated the two major parties, the wealthy few engaged in abuse of democracy. And without shame continue to profit off the backs of the working poor, and destruction of the environment.

Oligarchy dominance is not a right-wing conspiracy, it is actual reality. They (oligarchy) consist of some of the wealthiest people on the planet who have plenty of money to fund propagandist -- this includes gerrymandering, diversions, omitting key important information. There is also organized protests at rallies funded by wealthy interests, which Sanders supporters got blame for, instead it was another source, name I dare not disclose.

It is alarming that so many people are duped, blindly continue to support such malevolence that has resulted in so many atrocities on so many levels.

Many decades of neglect regarding the environment has resulted in extinction of species. The wealthy few have no shame, and their stronghold on major media groups is the tool they use to abuse democracy and dupe millions of Americans to continue supporting horrendous abuse of human rights, international laws and destruction of the environment.

It is alarming that so many people are duped to believe that the Green Party does not have the means to govern if Jill Stein becomes POTUS. Please read this message from the Green Party:

There have been countless allegations this year that the Green Party never runs local candidates. This deliberate falsehood could not be further from the truth. The next time you come across this slander (typically from Democrats), send the 'author' our page.

A Vote For The Green Party is Not a Waste
No person should be discourage and misled. The fact is, more votes for the Green Party will at the very least provide more solid ground to succeed by 2020. Eventually the majority of people will see that for more than 50 years of either Democratic or Republican party always results in further atrocities, more hell on Earth.

It is a tough battle against the giant malevolent duopoly (Dems/Repubs) however, the Green Party and their support should never give up a worthy cause.

Never give up moral values and integrity

Never give up respect for life and the environment.

Vote Jill Stein (Green Party U.S)


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#21

Just the plain fact that all the presidential candidates are not allowed in the debates says volumes about how heavily rigged in favor of the duopoly the political process is. That in it self makes a mockery of the whole thing..
Yet MSM continues to ignore this obvious deception.


#22

The ONLY fact that needs to be checked and rechecked is that unless a lot of Murkins vote for Jill Stein on November the 99% here and abroad will be in deep quicksand.

Can you say neofeudalism ?


#23

Since when is voting for what you believe in a wasted vote? That's insulting to me and millions of others who vote their conscience, not for evil.


#26

Just the reality that Stein/Green Party is on the ballot in 48 states, is it? should qualify any candidate to be included in any "debate." Don't know what the situation with the Libertarian Party is, but if similar, same also. Many huge hurdles, set up by the duopoly, were overcome with the support of many people to attain that ballot access.

I did watch the so-called "debate" last night, and though have been a lifelong democrat voter, am no longer one of their partisan drones. It was, for lack of a better word, surreal, as is most political conversation or comment coming from the mainstream, or the status quo. Reason is, it begins from a set of premises which are assumed (insisted?) are true, but which in the main, a large percentage of people either know to be untrue, or suspect as much.

The one recurring thought I had: there was too much mendacity there for the fact-checkers to keep up. No need to dissect details here. Suffice it to say that both pugilists did their best to defend the indefensible, ie tax cuts for the rich, and continued militarism. I expected no less (or should I have said "no more?")


#27

Thank you, Allison, for your take re Green Party. I've voted Green in the past with no regrets. After all, the only wasted vote is the one never cast.

Of course, while I would prefer to vote Stein and wish progressives had set up a vote trading system as the Republicans have, as is, my district is gerrymandered to produce a 50/50 vote count-- apart from malcounts via voting machines; thus, I make a troubling vote for Clinton. There's minor consolation in that Chomsky has counseled swing voters to do just that.

The sophomoric types who want to remake the world with purist rant and pamphlet fury will never understand this. Granted, the adults who read CD are usually pained to comment here because of their snarkiness. Then again, perhaps if they were married as many years as I've been, they would learn that you don't always get your way-- right or wrong.


#28

Bernie, what a sad pathetic person you have become. Admit you are in bed with hillary, you are a sell out. Don't care what you have to say anymore. Remember that ACTIONS speak louder than words and your ACTIONS as a avid supporter are truly revolting. You had a chance to make a real change, but you became a chickenshit patsy for the shill.


#29

The amazing thing to me is how so many people cannot see through the ruse of putting on these theatrical productions (so-called debates) pitting a buffoon who turns off gigantic chunks of voters with each utterance, against a bought and paid for corporate shill and pretend that this is an "election contest" and we get to have a voice in who is going to lead our country.