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Democrats Can't Run And Win On The Fact That Trump's An Idiot

Our educated upperclass betters? Shame on you for being an elitist. I know trades people who vote green and also supported Bernie. I also have heard of elites who voted for Dump!

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Who WILL run? That is the question.

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this might be a good time to acquaint yourself with the term, “sarcasm”. I’m pretty sure Mr. Connelly was employing it there. If I’m wrong, I’ll happily apologize.

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I don’t think the political term " progressive " is in bad shape nationally. " Liberal " has been rightfully trashed and discarded since the mid-1990s. Other than that, Mr. Atcheson has done another great job here. That’s 2 in one week.
As to 2018, the Greens are talking about an election that’s only 9 months away. FYI- don’t enter any quick draw contests where $$$ is involved. Donate the entry fee to your local candidate/party chapter.:grinning:
The Dimocrats will do alright in 2018. But if you study the vote patterns of Democratic House members in the Rust Belt, the coalition seems to be shifting to different type of populism. The social conservatives are ascending somewhat. Watch their Senate candidates follow suit. That may cause problems.

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absolutely agree and day by day the so-called democrats continue to show us that they are a party without principles or a vision for the future. I only vote for candidates that meet my progressive values and encourage younger folks to get into politics if they have a vision for our future and theirs. More of them are doing it.

Damn the democrats.

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Accepting that argument, who represents democracy? Those who put forth the inherently anti-democratic Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) provisions of NAFTA, TPP, TTIP, etc.? You know, the part that says that private corporations can effectively force (via lawsuit-extortion) governments to overturn (or prevent) laws and regulations enacted by the people’s democratically elected representatives?

Those who support coups against democratically-elected leaders around the globe? Who proudly tout the unholy amounts of taxpayer dollars they throw at the War Machine? Those who will vote time and again for the interests of the few representing concentrated capital, against the interests of their own constituents? Those who have been silent about Citizens United and the affirmation of legal corruption / destruction of democracy?

Yes, I know… I could be talking about the R’s just as well as the D’s. And that’s the point. As political parties, neither really fights for democracy itself and both are all too willing to sell it out for a seat in Washington.

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Thanks. Yes. Perhaps we need no betters at all. My hope is we await the right moment to commence autonomous democracy outside of government.

We need no one who thinks a doctor wondering about human health is thinking more deeply than a farmer tending the health of a farm.

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This is from an article in The Atlantic titled “Boycott the Republican Party.” It makes sense to me.

“(1) The GOP has become the party of Trumpism.
(2) Trumpism is a threat to democratic values and the rule of law.
(3) The Republican Party is a threat to democratic values and the rule of law.”

"If the syllogism holds, then the most-important tasks in U.S. politics right now are to change the Republicans’ trajectory and to deprive them of power in the meantime. In our two-party system, the surest way to accomplish these things is to support the other party, in every race from president to dogcatcher. The goal is to make the Republican Party answerable at every level, exacting a political price so stinging as to force the party back into the democratic fold.’.

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When has the Clintonista wing of the Democratic Party been held answerable at every level for their political actions?
Or, Obama during his 1st two years of office?
Both made very damaging decisions that benefited their donors and The Beltway Bunch over their constituents.

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You are the confusing the issue. The only thing that matters in this election is defeating Republicans. It is pretty simple, authoritarian rule or democracy. It has always been a given that both parties support democracy (conspiracy theorists aside who see all kinds of things behind the scene) but that is no longer true based on the Republicans unswerving support of Trump.

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I like your analogy-

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GREAT comment!

Only if the Democratic party–and/or a whole lot of people running on the Democratic ticket and ignoring the DNC except to wallop the DINOs it sends to primary them–comes out unequivocally for democracy, which seems highly unlikely.

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Lrx, the “Republican unswerving support of Trump” is bogus. Fewer Republicans walk in lock step with Trump than Democrats with Hillary in the last election.

There were, and are, Republican “Never Trumper”. Even Bernie rolled over and became a Hillarista.

The Democrats are as much of a threat to “democracy” as the Republicans.

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Unfortunately, both parties are on the side of authoritarianism.

Lrx, If that’s the Democrats’ call to arms, they’ve already destroyed their own credibility.

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Most progressive agree that defeating the r/tp/cons matter but disagree on electing a d/lib/prog who will actually listen to the voters. Money has rotted both parties even though neither will ever do anything to stop it from being shoveled into their pockets even if it leads to the death of democracy. They have theirs so why would they give a damn about anyone else or the country?

Money won’t go away unless all incumbents start getting defeated. That takes the citizens uniting against the rulers which is what the politicians fear more than anything. Limiting terms to 6 or 12 years total would also help hold them accountable despite the negatives of term limits.

The two party stranglehold has to go before their damage causes terminal damage to the country. That is why both parties throw out hot and divisive issues to keep the citizens at each others throats instead of at the politicians throats. One or two politicians will make little headway with the control the party holds over whether they get elected or reelected. We need people with ethics who are also willing to call out their own party even under threats. Only then will democracy have a chance to survive in this country.

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Can’t argue with that.

Nice concise nuggets from Atcheson:

“None-of-the-above” was the overwhelming winner in 2016:

  • 65.5 million voted for Clinton;
  • 62.9 million voted for Trump;
  • 6.9 million voted for a third party candidate;
  • 96 million didn’t bother to vote.

“Before we examine the implications of these numbers, we need to dispatch a popular myth that the Clintonites have been hawking since the election – specifically, that those third-party votes are why she lost. The reality is, it’s likely they cost Trump more voters than they did Clinton. Jill Stein – who was to the left of Clinton – only garnered about 1 percent of the vote, while Gary Johnson, a libertarian and closer to Trump than Clinton on many of his positions, got about 3 per cent. But the fact is, most of these voters had more in common with the no-shows than they did with either Trump or Clinton voters. Like the no-shows, they were turned off by the two-party duopoly. Finally, we know that in 33 states, some 1.7 million voters were so turned off by their lack of real choice, they left the top of the ticket blank while casting votes for down ballot candidates – the number would be even higher if all 50 States had provided data.”

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I see major flaws in this this argument. For one,

[quote=“Lrx, post:39, topic:49035”]

True, but as I previously noted, the Democratic Party of the last couple decades at least has been party to the routine undermining of such values. Examples already cited; but there are far more than I’d have time to list.

We do effectively have a two-party system, but that is neither a legal or logical necessity nor, in my view, a public good. It exists in large part because so many have been persuaded to follow Team Red or Team Blue; which, being now largely the proxies for concentrated private capital which also now controls the largest news/propaganda media, continue to use the latter to persuade the electorate that they have no other choice.

I disagree with the premise. The most important task in U.S. politics is to change the entire trajectory of the duopoly; to retake power from it and to salvage democracy from the clutches of those who’ve sold it out for personal gain and otherwise destroyed it. To the extent that both parties have been complicit (in different degrees and ways) in this, supporting either will only further the unhappy trajectory.

Of course, the system itself is imperfect; it was designed by imperfect beings, with their own limitations and a complete inability to anticipate how the interplay of technology and commerce would undermine even the best of their efforts.

The Electoral College is only one manifestation. The failure to anticipate or later properly address the legal artifices called corporations is another. At the Party level, the undemocratic entity called the Superdelegate is yet another.

The need for systemic improvements is obvious; beginning with reversal of Citizens United as well as the obvious need for changes like ranked choice voting, to allow people to vote their conscience and freely in their best interest, without fear of the greater evil. And if the Democratic Party (of which I was a 44 year member, activist, candidate) has any vestiges of concern about democracy, it will demonstrate it and eliminate its Superdelegate mechanism.

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The problem is that while Trump is all that, so are many americans. Otherwise we wouldn’t have him as president in the first place. Intelligent and knowledgable voters would have stopped him from being elected. But we don’t have them voting. At least there is not enough of them to have stopped him.

Americans are the people who had 70% of them agreeing that Iraq had nuclear weapons and would attack us at any moment. They are easily scared and led.And the Trumps of the US can take advantage of them.

So pointing it out to the lemmings, not of the democrats, but the rest of the population who is easily led and scared won’t work.

But what will work? Republicans use the scare of the ‘others’ effectively for far too many people. And the democrats have no real candidate so far who can really stir up support for 2020.

But so far in other elections the democrats have been winning. And they are not being lemmings running just against Trump. So the lemming analogy just doesn’t work.

Right now there is a backlash against the republicans, whether the democrats can take advantage of that is still up in the air.

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