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'Don't Let Anyone Fool You,' Says Sanders. Primary Wins Show Progressives 'Transforming American Politics'

As Allan Lictman said in the conclusion of his spiel,

“The best way to predict the future is to choose it” — and that’s exactly what this Disguised Global Crony Capitalist Empire has been doing since at least 1944 with the “Undoing of the New Deal” (ie. the torpedoing of Henry Wallace, by the DNC), and most recently the 2016 torpedoing of the most popular candidate, Bernie Sanders, again by the DNC.

Although the DNC was instrumental in killing the turn toward a truly populist progressive alternative to Empire from the FDR 3.15 terms all the way through to Emperor Trump — several of the killings of “promising” turns toward uncontrolled (small ‘d’) democracy, required the Empire to put its “thumb on the scale” more aggressively.

I’m a bit surprised that a noted history professor named Allan didn’t seem to focus on the seminal determining factor behind the curtain of Empire beyond the Second World War of Empires.


Yes I understand you disagree with his tactics. Throwing him under the bus for tactical mistakes seems too harsh for me.

The common wisdom, which I can’t vouch for, but which seems logical to me, is that he’s in line to chair the Senate Budget Committee if the Democrats control the Senate. If he goes to war with them, I doubt if he’d get that chairmanship and he would be completely neutered in a political sense.

Maybe that’s OK with you, but I’d rather have him than any other Senator in that role. Or maybe you think there’s someone better in the Senate to chair that committee. Who would that be?

I think Bernie, having lost the nomination, is trying to be as effective as possible in a world where it’s extremely difficult to be effective. In my opinion, his life long allegiance to important policy positions deserves respect. But I get that you don’t have any respect for that.


So, you’re giving up before you even try?



I suspect that your characterization of Bernie’s “singing” would be relatively correct as long as it was restricted to his pre-Senate career. Sadly, once Bernie made it to “the club”, it appears that he underwent a metamorphosis, changing from a plain old House of Representatives caterpillar to a splendid Senate butterfly. And sometime thereafter, he made a significant change in his political perspective that I suspect he’d just as soon we wouldn’t mention and it seems that most of us have been prepared to do just that, being the committed political revolutionary that he is.

There are several easy-to-find videos out there in YouTube land and elsewhere wherein Bernie states what I believe is absolutely correct and the most important thing for voters to know about politics in the U.S… Really. The most important thing.

He said (I’m paraphrasing, though I believe it’s essentially correct) that the kind of change progressives want to see will never come from one of the traditional parties, from the duopoly, that it can only be accomplished via a third and opposing political party. Assuming that he was then sincere in his belief, why would Bernie suddenly drop that most important tenet after he became a U.S. Senator? I’ll leave it to you to decide but whatever the motivation, it’s clear that he’s not always sung the same political song.


The only ones fooled are those that believe by electing a progressive to the Democratic Party slate things will change.

The ONLY time Bernie Sanders should be making statements about how the Progressives are having an impact is when meaningful legislation such as M4A or cuts to Military spending made. Do not boast about progress until there is progress.

When a Bill cutting military spending spending by 20 percent passes the Senate, the Congress and the Presidency , then you are talking. The rest is “imagine if…”


Thank you. You have said it clearly for all the Democrat apologists and believers on this site. Actions speak louder than words. But they will never hear such truth.


So you want Trump to win again. That’s what not voting for Biden will get you.

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No, that’s what voting for Clinton got us. Even if Biden wins someone worse than Trump will likely win in 2024. Both parties work for their corporate oligarch masters. I am so tired of the stupidity of the US citizens who keep voting for their own destruction by voting for both parties. I do give up.


The biggie election among dems outside the president is in MA 1 between the youngster Alex Morse and Richard ‘Money Bags’ Neal, a thirty year democrat establishment congressman … chairman of the ultra powerful ways and means committee. Pelosi personally run ads for Neal today. The establishment is in full panic. Throw more wood on the fire. Help Alex.


Visceral attacks on Sanders is counter productive regardless if you have decided to vote for Biden or not …


Try what? Voting for the same two corporate parties who will end up killing us all on behalf of their corporate oligarch masters. That has really worked out well over the last few decades.


Ah,extremely well said! And oh so true. Thank you.


Just as we were worse off with a growing Tea Party minority in Congress, so are we better off with a growing Progressive minority.

The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.

We should celebrate and support these minor victories, not as ultimate victories but as necessary next steps.

I can’t understand the opposition of otherwise seemingly progressive people to the successful election of progressive candidates. And the attacks on allied voices, such as Bernie, who have used their influence to support them.


“I have the awareness to know that Bernie aligning with the Democrats will never get any of them enacted.”

Sounds like giving up to me. Personally I am going to fight to the end to get this country turned around.


Very well said. I especially like your point here, “I think Bernie, having lost the nomination, is trying to be as effective as possible in a world where it’s extremely difficult to be effective.”, since it is so true. It is easy for us to criticize politicians for choices they make that we don’t agree with, but there are many very difficult decisions they have to make, where each choice is fraught with peril, or where their options are very limited. I see others like Warren, Merkley, Wyden, Castro, Jayapal, Grijalva, AOC, Khanna, etc. taking some courageous positions against the politicocorporate PTB on behalf of the people. Hopefully, the trend will continue, & we’ll at last start seeing some of the policies come to pass we’ve been crying for for decades that will go a long way toward solving the enormous challenges we face. It may already be too late, but we have to keep working for solutions to better our country.


The tea party elected a slate of Candidates to office and had an immediate impact as to the nature of Legislation passed as the Republican Party scrambled to keep them happy.

There have been “progressives” elected to office down in the USA for 40 plus years and they have nothing to show for it.

What this shows is the Republican party will respond to such movements while the Democrats will not.

The major reason why the Republicans responded to the tea party is because the Corporations and 1 percent had no issues with what the Tea Party people wanted. The reason all of those “Progressives” elected in the past to the Democrats have had no impact in 4+ decades is because the Corporations and the 1 percent will not allow it.

There is nothing wrong with Bernie advocating for progressive candidates. My point is that in claiming they are “transforming American politics” , he had better be able to point out examples of that transformation of which I have yet to see any.


Good evening everyone.

I’m watching this live stream: h-ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHlEIEM31Q8
1,594 watching now

It’s really good and I must say . . . . it is inspiring.

I can’t imagine Joe Biden leading this discussion. He could not----nor would he care to. Or Obama . .

With all the griping I’ve done about Bernie dropping out, I must give him kudos for leading these types of discussions and campaigning hard for people like Bush, Bowman and Tlaib.


Yes it’s hard. And many good things take time.

In the meantime I’m grateful for Bernie’s efforts and the efforts of those he’s supporting. We’re certainly no worse off for it and most probably better off.


Cc: @mbob and @Mr_Peabody for the topic of Bernie disillusionment and Lisa Savage

Maybe not better, but there are probably a few people that would get just as good an end result given the Senate isn’t very progressive and won’t go for much until we can clean house a lot more. How about Mazie Hirono? She’s a cosponsor of medicare for all and actually scores above Bernie at ~https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate (actually several people score above Bernie that I don’t consider more progressive - it would be interesting to follow these ratings a bit more closely down to the individual votes).

I won’t throw Bernie under the bus - I appreciate his endorsement of Cori Bush and he is not my enemy. But I’m pretty disillusioned and I unsubscribed from his youtube channel as I just don’t want to hear the guy very often now. If he showed some spine and endorsed Lisa Savage (as Bre Kidman, a Democrat who lost the primary in that Maine Senate race did recently - see ~https://www.sunjournal.com/2020/08/02/independent-u-s-senate-hopeful-lisa-savage-picks-up-backing-of-one-time-democratic-rival/), then I’d change my opinion of him.


If it as hard as you suggest it is , then would it not be true that he would be just as effective outside of the DNC party wherein a truly progressive slate of Candidates selected and he works to get them elected to office?

What benefit has there been since the Clinton years in remaining inside the DNC with that progressive voice? Over the past few weeks Jeff Bezos has gotten 30 billion dollars richer and a massive spending bill was passed for the Military.

I will suggest had he 30 voices in an independent party , they would have been listened to and had a greater influence then they have had by staying in a party that laughs at progressives and claims “they have no where else to go” as they court right wing voters and Corporate dollars.

A party strategist for the DNC openly stated that for every vote they lost on “the left” they could pick up two on the right . That should demonstrate clearly why this strategy of trying to reform from within does not and has not worked. Is building a third party really any harder then trying to sway the DNC from within?

It can only work when for every 2 Republican votes they gain , 12 and more votes on the left are lost and those votes on the left vote a candidate that has no ties to the DNC.

The problem is people have been “fooled” out of doing that nearly a Century now since the time of Eugene Debs, the Populists and the Socialists.