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Following Historic Vote, New Orleans to Remove Confederate Monuments


#1


#2

Oops! There go the Jefferson and Washington monuments. Can't continue to honour preeminent slave owners, can we?


#3

@Towhee Don't forget Mount Rushmore.


#4

The best compromise would be to carefully move the statues to a warehouse where they would be cleaned and preserved for future generations. They would then be installed in a history museum. To placate the inevitable furor, the museum's posted hours of operation could be from 10am to 4pm every February 29th.

Because scream as loud as you wish, the sons of the South were defending their country exactly the same way as Iraq and Afghanistan veterans are/were defending theirs.

Further, consider that The Gulf of Tonkin Incident [1] was a fiction. Indeed, [McNamara fessed up. [2] Are we going to tear down the wall—The National Vietnam Veterans Memorial—in 150-200 years ?

As new users are forbidden to embed links, Sorry, new users can't put links in posts.
— [1] usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2008-02/truth-about-tonkin
— [2] google.com/#q=Robert+McNamara+confesses+Vietnam+was+a+lie


#5

Rushmore is a hideous monument to the genocide of the First Nations, like a festering pus pocket in the center of the sacred Black Hills. Dynamite the sucka.


#6

The Confederacy was never a legitimate Country, so no, they were NOT defending their Country. They were committing treason against The United States.

Not to mention, it was the CSA which opened fire first, so no, they were NOT doing any defending.


#7

Jefferson and Washington were NOT traitors to our Country. All of the Confederates were; every single one.


#8

Are we going to tear down the wall—The National Vietnam Veterans Memorial—in 150-200 years ?
[/quote]

Are you frigging kidding? That is so not the same thing. For one thing, the monuments in question are revering the leaders who led the soldiers to their slaughter for an immoral cause; the wall reveres all the soldiers who died, down to the lowest grunt on the totem pole.

I'm waiting for Richmond Virginia to do something about the Confederate monuments along the famed Monument Avenue, so good for New Orleans.


#9

Traitors? Maybe not, but Jefferson and Washington were the O.G.s of the new slave nation and, as such, owned vast tracks of stolen land, trafficked in, and personally exploited Black slaves, and codified white male privilege into the very fabric of the new society, where it still resides. Jefferson, the brilliant empiricist (and Deist) is now considered one of the patron saints of the Tea Party.


#10

"There are few , in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery, as an institution, is a moral and political evil".
Robert E. Lee, 1855


#11

As you all know, I'm as anti racist as they come - pointing out the racism embedded in society and in some other commenters here. But confederate statues in plazas and town squares are as much an architectural and cultural fixture of southern towns as grits, biscuits and red-eye gravy with your eggs. Lenin and the Bolsheviks despised religion and especially the Russian Orthodox Church. But even Lenin didn't order the tearing down of St. Basil's Cathedral (and other ornate churches) in Moscow - but he did turn them into museums of the abuses of the tsar and capitalism. We need fresh and more accurate interpretations of history - but removing the monuments altogether has a strong Orwellian (or even Taliban or ISIL or Turkey-like) whiff of history-censorship.

It seems to me that in place of removing them, plaques could be installed explaining the horrid institutions Jeff Davis and the generals and colonels defended. Also, for each confederate monument, install a monument memorializing the suffering of the slaves.


#12

And what about the even larger, but much lesser known, frieze-sculpture of Jeff Davis, Lee and Stonewall Jackson carved into the face of Stone Mountain - a 800 ft granite dome just outside of Atlanta?

http://www.panoramio.com/photo_explorer#user=89118&with_photo_id=733904&order=date_desc


#13

Of course Washington and Jefferson were traitors. There was no United States of America when they rose up in rebellion against the crown. They were TRAITORS.

Had the South prevailed in its rebellion would you be claiming Jefferson and Lee were not traitors?


#14

Good points. It is sad that it took a Canadian to point out our and my US-centrism even here in Commondreams!

As the Israeli pacifist Uri Avnery said: "one mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" (especially true back when he said it in the days of the PFLP, IRA, FRETILIN, ETA, FMLN, etc.) so it is true that one man's traitor is another mans "patriot".

Oh, and in a few days I'll be driving by that big monument, just across the mouth of the Niagara Gorge at the Queenston Bridge commemorating the victory at the Battle of Queenston Heights where Canadians and their indigenous allies defeated the US forces - and a reminder that contrary to what my teacher taught me, the US did NOT win the war of 1812!

Edit: And do you recall "54-40 or fight"? You might be a USAn right now, but Polk instead decided to focus his military forces southward - to robbing from Mexico all their land south of the 42nd parallel instead.


#15

Suspira,
Washington and Jefferson were traitors against the CROWN! They certainly were NOT traitors AGAINST US!

Had the Southerners prevailed in rebellion, they would STILL meet the definition of traitors, and would so for the rest of time.


#16

Yunzer,
Your plaque idea is excellent. Perhaps adding the word "Traitor" in bronze would have the proper impact.


#17

There WAS NO United States of America when they rose up against the crown. The Colonies were part of the british Empire. There was no country called the United States of America when they committed treason.

The only difference between them and the Confederate cause is the latter LOST.

Wasgington and Jefferson by defintion were TRAITORS even though in their case they prevailed when trying to break away from another entity and form a country of their own.


#18

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#19

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#20

Suspira,
Oh yes, there WAS a Country called the United States of America during the Revolutionary War. It had been explicitly created as a perpetual Union of the States, and said name officially selected, by our Articles of Confederation. 1776 was a very busy year.

Again, Washington and Jefferson were indeed traitors against the Crown, and always will be.

And every single Confederate who fired a shot against the USA or helped conduct that treason in any way, is and always will be, a traitor to the USA.