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Forget the Market Plunge. This Year, the Global People Plunge Continues


#1

Forget the Market Plunge. This Year, the Global People Plunge Continues

Jon Queally, staff writer

First things first: the stock market is not the economy.

Secondly, some of today's news from the system that is international casino capitalism:


#2

The reason the global economy is locking up is because it is 100% reliant on cheap almost free energy and a biosphere that can absorb our unlimited waste stream. Both of those elements are gone for ever therefor no more growth and the global DEBT BASED economy requires growth. If it ain't growing its dying. We can't spend our way to overcoming the hard cold facts of living on a finite planet.


#4

Economists are weak brained idiots barely able to think. Nobel prize winning economists may blather nonsense more eloquently than regular economists but it's impossible to tell because none of them make sense. Plus the economy they describe has no relation with anything on Earth that might be a successful alternative to poisoning life as the way to increase immortal corporate profit digits.

The economy creates centralized pools of capital by blowing people up or poisoning them with chemical corporate agriculture. Corporatism does not make a profit. It milks society and Earth. Mr. Stiglitz would have us believe there is someone who will spend borrowed money sanely to increase demand in a way that does not add to pollution. The actual fact is the US government is a murder machine. It borrows a huge amount of money every year and uses the money to kill completely innocent people all over the world.


#5

In Mr. Reich's tunnel vision article today, he manages to slight astrologers. Perhaps taking in a wider spectrum analysis might do him some good!

Reading this piece, I was at last relieved to see the KEY piece of the fiscal puzzle actually mentioned; and it's the GENUINE economy and source of all wealth... Mother Nature's assets.

A cursory look at recent events starting with California fires, Missouri floods, the methane horror near Los Angeles added to so much turmoil throughout so much of the world should make the STATE of NATURE central to ANY discussions about economics, predictive or otherwise!

At least Mr. Stiglitz mentions what to too many appears to be THE unmentionable:

"Stiglitz continues by arguing that there "are huge unmet global needs that could spur growth" and act as a remedy to counter this sputtering and unstable economic situation. "Infrastructure alone," he writes, "could absorb trillions of dollars in investment, not only true in the developing world, but also in the US, which has underinvested in its core infrastructure for decades. Furthermore, the entire world needs to retrofit itself to face the reality of global warming."


#6

The only way out - the only way forwards - is to create a vast renewable energy infrastructure which includes both utility sized solar furnace power plants and wind farms as well as home and office building solar and wind installation. Need jobs to provide salaries to spur buying and increase demand?

Well create the darn jobs that create buying power that create demand for goods. The damn fool idiots can't make themselves support getting off fossil fuels even when they'd make more money doing it!

Reactionary and conservative ideology stymies capitalism ... simply out of spite. What do you do with capitalists who refuse to make money because they don't want those liberals to have been proven right about renewables?

Tsk tsk!


#7

Again disheartening, to read a paean to pumping up the economy, with no reference to the accelerating ecological dis-integration taking place, caused by the industrial economy.

We need:
- swift global reduction in human industrial assault against the ecology;
- an end to subsidizing and compensating industrial, agricultural and financial extractivism and war;
- re-orientation of all economic and agricultural activities and enterprises, toward harmony with natural systems and processes.

We need to compost the industrial / war / growth economy, and grow a permaculture economy from the grassroots. We need a revolution of humanity / humility / humus.


#8

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#9

I hate to say it but wishing for calamity and a take down of the system will result in utter chaos and misery. So many people keep spouting that we gotta cut population ( how to do that fast they never say), we gotta stop eating meat, we gotta go back to small scale farming, we gotta reduce consumption and simplify like some back to the primitive 'Glory to the Peasants' growing food with a rake and a shovel.

F'ing how many billions would have to die before humanity's numbers dropped sufficiently for that to even work? 75%? 80%?

How about we stop 'taking this opportunity" to TRY to make a drastic massive changes because of impending climate change and instead we concentrate on making just the changes needed so as to avert catastrophic climate change in twenty years?

That's the thing... we don't have very much time to do anything and all these fantasies of back to the primitive and reduced consumption and humility and what not aren't real. Not in twenty years they ain't.

We need to build infrastructure to avert climate change which entails a high functioning economy and manufacturing, transportation, construction and so forth. First we fix the short term and then we smarten up and fix our over consumption and waste.

Twenty years is hardly enough to change the future as it is ...but we'd better. We should adapt what we have to switch from fossil fuels to renewables. That is actually a lot to do just by itself. We just stop using fossil fuels ... if we can. The rest we can do later ...because if we don't switch to renewables fast... exactly what kind of world do you expect to be there where anyone can make these other changes happen?

Oh I forgot to ask... who made the toaster?


#10

The global capitalist class is cutting off their life-saving air supply by:

  • Hoarding obscene amounts of capital instead of investing it in the future viability of their businesses, and

  • Requiring and enforcing draconian austerity programs through the corporately-owned governments, the WTO, the World Bank, the IMF, and the central banks.

The capitalist ruling class are so blinded by their greed that they cannot (and will not) release any capital into the system ... even for their own survival.

For a corporation to make money, a product or service must be purchased. A product or service cannot be purchased (beyond the necessities of life) if the vast majority of global consumers are fighting to meet their everyday needs of housing, food, medical, etc.

The way the trends are going, As a socialist, I needn't worry about overthrowing capitalism ... it is killing itself! :joy:

“I am for Socialism because I am for humanity.”
– Eugene Debs | Socialist Party of America


#12

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#17

I understood but I just think that the world needs to concentrate on avoiding catastrophic climate change before it does anything else. Yes we have finite resources but first lets worry about saving everybody from the worst because we only have a short window of opportunity before the climate downsizes everybody.

That would include wars, famines, disease pandemics, crop failures, floods, droughts, civil unrest/the rise of fascism and military juntas and so on. Plus killer heat.

Twenty years is a short time to do so much... renewables first and everything else afterwards.


#18

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#19

Why do you continue to mislead people by arguing that building more renewable energy sources is the "only" solution? Any idiot can see that renewable energy is far superior to coal and other fossil fuel sources of energy. But reducing demand for energy is a huge part of the equation which your misleading "only solution" argument ignores. Your everyday argument that the "only" solution is to build solar and wind power stations ignores the fact that it is stupid to provide power from any source to industries that cause enormous environmental harm. For example, the animal slaughter industry harms animals (10 billion slaughtered in the U.S. every year), causes poor human health, deforestation, polluted rivers and so on. Building solar and wind power units to keep that industry alive is a waste of such energy. It follows that the building of wind and solar power stations is a wonderful thing but it is far from the "only" solution as you never tire of preaching. Your assertion that it is the "only" solution is misleading and does not help your cause. If it were the "only" solution, we would still have animal agriculture and all of its evils when your one and only solution has been implemented. Quit trying to prove that animal agriculture is OK and that the only solution to the climate crisis is to build solar and wind farms. Your persistent blindness to the big picture is annoying. And stop the ridiculous argument that your "only" solution is the only one that can be implemented in 20 years. The meat industry could be shut down immediately if people would just stop consuming dead bodies. It costs nothing to boycott meat and that most harmful of industries could be eliminated in less time than 20 years if people would just get serious about reducing their meat consumption and stop waiting for politicians and corporations to solve the climate change/global warming problem. And stop accusing me of hi-jacking these discussions. You are the one who hi-jacks every environmental discussion with your egotistical "only" solution to the problem. And please note how the barbs that you and Webwalk and a few others like to throw at me for speaking my mind have been used by me in this comment. Thank you for schooling me on how to treat other commenters in a highly obnoxious manner. I have learned at the feet of the masters.


#20

You are really ridiculous about all of this. Believe what you want. If you think that the world will abruptly stop eating meat within twenty years well guess what? That wouldn't solve the climate change problem anyway even if they did. That is reality.

As far as your taking people's words out of context and then applying grammar school logic such as claiming that my use of the word 'only' was to be taken literally and that all forms of reducing the rate of climate change aren't needed is simply because you are not rational.

In any case please feel free to hold your opinion even in the face of scientific logic. However please allow me the same courtesy. I am sorry if I do not wish to engage your need for psychodrama about becoming a vegetarian. I think any rational person will think that you are an obsessive compulsive with a side order of martyr complex and a bit of passive aggressiveness for dessert. In short see a therapist or spare me the connection with your internal dialogue. I am not interested. It is fine with me if you think the world will be saved by people going vegetarian... that's very nice.

Um? How many do you think you've convinced by annoying people and embarrassing yourself (you aren't the only one doing that but I guess people are desperate for attention) here on CD? Saved the world with broccoli yet?

By the way... you display considerable empathy for animals however having watched your posts these last few months, it is obvious that you are virtually psychopathic in your lack of empathy for people. You feel for animals I suppose but you also seem to have suppressed deep resentments for human beings in general. You are a lonely and unhappy person but you do seem to like animals though. I used to like them until you! However you just want to save domestic animals from being eaten whereas I'd rather just save the world first (you can be literal here because I don't care anymore). People could just stop eating meat you keep saying but they won't will they? Moreover you've changed your tune (wisely) about meat eating being responsible for 80% of GHGs. From 80% you've gone to 51% (attempting to keep saying 'most' I suppose).but all agriculture including meat raising accounts for only 20% of greenhouse gases. You are thus deceiving and confusing people with false information . It is bizarre that you think you are helping when in fact you are actually hurting efforts to avoid the worst of climate change by claiming being a vegetarian is what people need to do.to avoid chaos climate change.

With respects to armybrat's feeling like having a steak after reading you......
Have you tried Puppy Fricassee? Nice cream sauce ... Very tasty.


#23

Perpetual growth/Capitalism is the Edsel of economic theory. To convince citizens that it is the best available model, the wealthy must cultivate ignorance using fear and nationalistic pride to fertilize their garden of delights.


#24

Almost but not quite. You forgot greed. We both know that what you' ve said is true but the wealthy also cultivate envy and selfishness. They strut amid their wealth and say to everyone >..."Don't you want to be as rich as me?" Capitalism is very much about greed and it's sidekick... envy.

Just a point. I am concerned about avoiding catastrophic climate change. I could care.less about which is better capitalism or socialism I figure a mixture of both. What I care about is whatever works whatever the label.


#25

Bartering is great and there are organizations all about bartering online. You might like to check them out.


#26

On the electoral front, electing Bernie Sanders is the only real hope for even attempted to tackle the rigged economic system, not Hillary Clinton, and definitely not the repub fascist stooges.


#27

That is just the problem. Everyone is talking about growth and growth. The Republicans and the Democrats only differ of how they want to see that growth happening. Too much growth results in cancer. This growth is also poorly distributed. The industrial West is abusing developing countries so that the West can go on growing.

If people think that the deals Obama made with Cuba and Iran are for peaceful purposes for people to get along forget it. Those are future markets of growth since people can no longer shop too much at home.


#28

Bingo! And thanks.