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Green Groups at COP 25 Warn Against Market-Driven Solutions to Climate Emergency

Although the author brings up some valid observations of the status quo, his remedies by way of company town/ecovillages led by someone that can finance their development doesn’t sound like any kind of answer to me. Our villages are already in tact. People just need to be weaned of their addiction to consumerism . If we treated the commons (as air, water, nature, air waves etc.) appropriately as rights and services to the community, there would be no private for profit mainstream media but rather service related news, information and entertainment. We wouldn’t be constantly bombarded with things that we “need” or someone else’s agenda. Reduce the mass movement of goods and instead purchase services and gods from others within our communities.


As soon as i came across the "Heartland Institute i quit reading. Obvious that Singer is one of “their” men.

It could be said we have climate change because we are ignorant. That we do not have the knowledge to solve the problem. it is easy to say what doesn’t work like: Capitalism will not save humanity. Capitalism will destroy humanity.

But I disagree. It is not ignorance. It is a failure to communicate. It is a failure of imagination. Climate change is a failure to care for humanity, a failure to ask questions.

Market solutions is pure tribal nonsense.

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It’s odd how this essay comes up with a sort of localized “big man” idea which creates an automatic hierarchy & is authoritarian by virtue of the power invested in this one individual. No sense of people working together to problem solve then do the work that needs to be done, everyone contributing, everyone valued.
Most of the housing for our society already exists, but needs to be made more resilient & zero carbon to heat & power. Any construction has it’s own carbon cost in materials & energy needed to build it etc. so the idea of “just building” new eco villages has it’s own carbon footprint.

Growing some of our own food, free public transportation, way less consumption of stuff. I did a thought experiment a while back. What if we had to cut down our energy usage by half in 60days? Use half the gas, half the electricity. Could we do that? Carpool, unplug stuff when it’s not running. Reduce, how many computers, TV’s etc and how big are they 'cause big is inefficient here. Light bulbs are more efficient now. Smaller living space=less materials, lower heating needs. Come on how much clothing do we need, do I need, admonishing myself.
Those things are on the consumption side. The Us Gov’t, with a Pres Bernie Sanders needs to nationalize the fossil fuel industry in order to wind them down. Utilities need to be publicly owned. A gov’t of we the people need a GND, a guaranteed job and direct gov’t investment in housing our homeless people since the “Market” is obviously incapable of meeting our needs. The gov’t needs to directly invest in recarbonizing Nature so that forests and grasslands and watersheds are STORING CARBON, their natural function. Environmental justice must be achieved by centering the rehabilitation of toxic areas where POC live and having strong protections in law to protect us from harm from rapacious corporations. Of course corporations need to be worker owned or be cooperatives bc by their very nature corporations are unably to play nicely on our planet and you see how they treat us.

I love this… can not read it all right now…as I have to go to work tomorrow…but. .just the amount I did read about how…the general talk of taking action…changing our lifestyles. Is NOT SPECIFIC ENOUGH. … One thing for sure. getting rid of Capitalism… Is a good first step… BUT. continuing our consumer lifestyles in any other economic system…will not work either. Honestly. I have no hope that we will get our act together, SOCIOLOGICALLY. in order to help ourselves . …I used to think so. When I first began commenting on this site, . …2005-6… I was all about renewables…and programs the government could do to help …like give millions of people pieces of land for organic farming…and…the government t would surely work out many ways to stop the progress of climate chaos…but …that was all laughable…as now I am not naive any longer. …I have eyes wide open… We allowed ourselves to worship those in our society who did any thing…to gather money and power…for mlillenia now…and it has been even worse. the last few hundred years… We made this our ultimate goal…and thiose who did it best… became our lesders… because we put them there…the better they wielded power and money…the more we cheered them on. War…and violence against those the had no power…was okay with us. Sue Rose was right Mars…rules…and Pluto tells all…go aheasd… look up the description of Pluto in Capricorn . The U.S. was born with Pluto in Capricorn…And …now it is back after almost 250 years… as soon as it hits 27 degress… we will have “died”…as a nation…will we be reborn ? …as the Caterpillar iis to a butter fly?? That is the symbolism of Pluto …but…the other result…is actual death…if the process of TRANSFORMSTION …is not done … Have we unseated the hieraerchy?? Have we taken down the Plutocracy?? No…they have already won…enough of the tipping points have been triggered… this year…Jan 12th to be specific… Pluto and Ssturn conjunct at 22 degrees of Caspricorn …this is not a one day process folks. We can already feel the effects…the beginning of the end is nigh…Juliter comes along later in the year…to top things off in a big way…as it always does…Capricorn is the sign of CONTRACTION…LIMITS…DISCIPLINE …AND HIERARCHY…Pluto is symbolizing our wreaking ball. …just as it did in 1776…when the U.S. left the hierarchy of the crown if England…but…as I have read…they formed a system that would STILL allow for such… still allow for the massing of wealth by a few…this year. 2020… will be the turning point for us all… but the turrn… will not be toward any kind of positive…I am afraid… the table is set… for the more negative outcomes already… the planets…do not " make" us do anything …but …they are really good at symbolizing …just as our man made clock symbolizes the Earth spinning on it’s axis…and our calendar symbolizes the Earth’s orbit around the the Sun…a chart symbolizes …our activities and behaviors also…there are always a positive or negative way to use the energies…of any planet or sign…but…our human weakness…on a collective basis…seems to always have been …to the negstive… Therefore, Astrology does not take away free will…no…it is always there for us to choose…not the path of least resistance…

The central purpose is to consolidate global economic fascism. Not coincidentally, that is also the central purpose of the CIA.

Let’s be candid. The US government is the nerve center for global fascism. No more. And it’s military and police and intelligence services are the muscles for global fascism.

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Trump is right by saying that adhering to the Paris Accord will hurt the US economy. It is the same reason that virtually every country does not do anything about AGW.

Anyone who says we can address global warming and still maintain plus grow our economies is lying.

Countries and people in particular would cut way back on anything fossil fuel based if you paid them to so they can live.

You seem to have the situation 100% backwards. What normally happens is that there is a perceived problem which a politician can identify and mark as a political talking point. Then the politician claims that the only way to solve the perceived problem is through a new regulation that the politician will create. Five years later, after numerous changes and input myriad special interest groups, including at times the companies for which the regulation would directly affect, a regulation is born. It rarely resembles the original vision of the politician and usually is so late to the game that the industry has completely changed in that time frame.

I guess, Joan, I’ll pose it to you. If “market-based” solutions are off the table, what is on the table? What are the non-market based solutions that you support?

The insurance market’s favorite solution to risk assessment is to outsource the pain. Most houses aren’t insured for water damage, despite the mortgage holders knowing that they’re the ones that will be underwater if the house floods or washes off its pad.

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Why are the oil-soaked Rockefellers promoting Climate Crisis? https://eelegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Rockefeller-Way-Report-Final.pdf

Talk about following the money! I keep looking at both sides of this question of climate crisis/emergency/catastrophe etc. and more and more I lean toward this “crisis” is a manufactured plot by the super-rich to use tax money and government power to make themselves even more rich and powerful. They are using the mantle of “science” to dupe and manipulate people like poor Greta Thunberg and Kate Brown (our highly-extinguished governor of Oregon) into accepting a very anti-environment, highly Fascist-based policy of tax and control the herd – that’s you and me! No one likes to admitt that they have been duped by a Hitler-Big-Lie but that is what I see this hysteria about man-made carbon emission being the bugaboo hurtling us toward climate disaster/extinction. Don’t take my word for anything, but don’t take anyone else’s word either – look for yourself. More at https://inconvenientfacts.xyz/ Gopherit

“Market driven solutions” should be properly called “Oligarchy driven disasters”

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Sorry, thought that you had a background in the economics of it. I would strongly argue against equating socialism with actually existing communism. Two radical different things. Socialists in Canada were the main forces behind Medicare being created. Socialists in the UK created the NHS systems. Socialists in Nordic countries created the modern Nordic welfare states. We cannot solve this massive problem without a really good systematic analysis, and no other philosophy can do what needs to be done, which is a comprehensive form of economic planning, that is both equitable and democratic. It is socialist planning or authoritarian planning that will be run by people like Bolsonaro. There is no realistic third option.

I agree though that people are unaware, and they are largely because those in power have utterly failed society and have not led on this issue. And that is why, when it is entirely obvious to everyone that radical changes are needed, many of those people will not be prepared, will freak out and will try to support some leader that will protect them. We are marching towards a very ugly future, even if outright collapse doesn’t happen in the next century. We cannot start another democratic and equitable path without a systematic analysis.

What I was saying above is that markets are missing lots of information. In the socialist calculation debate (a debate over how a fully socialized system, which assumed full public ownership, so decentralized socialist systems weren’t really central to the debate), they debated the market itself. What happens when markets are missing information? What are the limits of markets? What are the limits of planning? What is needed for a form of comprehensive economic planning? People disagree on who won that debate, but it is obvious that the Austrian (free market) side, which wants to privatize everything and place monetary values on absolutely everything, is a non-starter from the get go. Most of those in power cannot accept that, because they realize what the actual implications are.


A form of rational economic planning. That isn’t easy, there are in fact difficulties that we will encounter when we cannot reduce most of these impacts to a single metric, either a market value (which you people support) or socially necessary labor time (which the Marxists support). But that is what we have to do. Because we have reached the limits to growth, because an increasing share of impacts lack market values and because our society is so inequitable and the political system so corrupt, we need very radical changes. AC Pigou said, accurately, that not all planned economies are socialist economies. He was right. Comprehensive economic planning of some kind is a given. People can like it or dislike it, it doesn’t really matter. The question is how democratic and equitable that planning will be. If we implemented it today, it would be a very inequitable and authoritarian form of planning, and I don’t want that. Most people wouldn’t.

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Thank you for the response. But you still didn’t answer my question. You provided a lot of words and platitudes, but no concrete ideas. What forms of “rational economic planning” do you propose? What are the concrete ideas? Can you be specific so that we can actually debate real ideas?

LOL! Since carbon emissions are just one part of a much larger crisis, I imagine the species extinction rate being thousands of times the natural rate is not really an issue? Ocean acidification? Dead zones in the Gulf and the Baltic Sea? Plastic pollution is no big deal, just one big hoax? Soil erosion, deforestation? The tens of thousands of chemicals that are produced in the industrial economy and thrown into ecosystems, those aren’t a problem? It’s depressing that people’s brains are so degraded that they think that silly nonsense makes an ounce of logical sense.


How about the word of 97% of climate scientists?

Waiting for market based solutions is like clinging to a runaway horse.

One solution is to be guided by science, not economics or religious superstition.

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The 97% statistic is a myth: