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Gutierrez: Pelosi 8-Hour Speech 'Nice Gesture,' But Meaningless If Dems Cave on DACA

Uh, if people who were not born here but are living here now are not immigrants, what are they?   Of course it’s poetic justice that us whites, who overwhelmed the reds through sheer numbers, are going to be overwhelmed by the browns through sheer numbers.   If we humans don’t manage to overwhelm all of life through our sheer numbers first, that is . . .

What concerns be the most is the drive to deport Dreamers is in the context of ethnic cleansing. Trump is too closely associated with the alt-right not to consider ethnic cleansing as the main motivation. The overall goal seems to keep non-whites out of the US, with the Muslim ban being one phase and a call for immigration reform being another phase, and getting non-whites out of the country. Once undocumented immigrants are all deported then what? The focus would shift and various means could be used for ethnic cleansing. Fear would motivate many to flee. Those deemed unpatriotic could wind up in concentration camps like the Japanese during WWII and talian-Americans also could have had that fate as supposedly plans for them were developed by the US government during the war.

Actually this eight hour speech got little attention for what she was doing. If you notice all the attention has been on the soap opera going on at the white house. Don’t pay attention to the fact that spending caps are about to be lifted on the military-I am not a fan of Obama but he did get these caps on the military. Chuck Schumer was all gleeful that the caps would be lifted. And with Trump in charge where will this domestic money be directed. I would hold onto the spending caps.

I like what Pelosi did,but it also shows the divisions in the democratic party leadership. We need real conversation about the military and immigration.

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While being true, that is not the point. The point us hunting innocent human beings on our own soil. This normalizes Authoritarianism for all of us.

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You said “more immigrants” and “legal or illegal” in your post.

DACA is not about more immigrants and even Trump’s policy allows for lots of legal immigration. You should write Trump a letter protesting ALL legal immigration. He wants to allow hundreds of thousands of immigrants in each year.

Tell me what you would do if you were Pelosi then. Her caucus isn’t unified because shutting the government down over DACA is just not popular especially in certain areas of the country. Frankly, most people don’t give a rip about DACA. When Republicans have the majority and set the political agenda, they get to determine what becomes law and policy. If Pelosi had the House, they could repass the 2013 immigration bill passed by the Senate tomorrow, but she doesn’t.

If the Greens were in the House minority now, how different do you think things would actually be?

You know, I have no idea whatsoever what it would be like if the Greens were the House minority right now.

Kind of hard wrapping my brain around such a hypothetical since the odds of it ever happening, given the reality of a two party oligarchy, are about .000000000000000000001 percent chance to zilch.

The reality is, Corporate State Democrats like Pelosi, when it comes down to it, even when Democrats control the Presidency, House, and Senate still service their corporate sponsors over the interests of the masses.

Sorry, I don’t for one second trust Pelosi’s commitment to DACA, or any commitment to stop Republicans doing what they do. Here you have the House Minority Leader who can always be counted on to sideline truly progressive legislation, giving a supposedly impassioned speech, while at the same time Schumer is boasting of a “bipartisan” (I’ve learned to always assume the masses are getting screwed any time that vacuous meme is used) agreement, that surprise surprise has just loads and loads of goodies for the super wealthy, large corporations, and of course people like Pelosi, Schumer, and all the rest of the Corporate State Democrats.

You can parse this in legislative minutia all you want, call me out as being stuck in the 90s and worse, and of being a “whiner” and not sophisticated enough to understand.

I’m smart enough, and indeed wise enough to see the patterns and read the writing on the wall, and my own chicken scratch documentation spanning 4 decades.

The current Democratic Party, as per the way the power center is structured (yes yes post DLC…facts suck don’t they) will ALWAYS, in the end, for the most part, serve the same interests as those dirty stinking Republicans.

If Pelosi wanted to play the DACA hand, in reality, and not just make a show for political purposes, then she would have at least pressured Democrats under her leadership to do the same.

It wasn’t just DACA. There were a whole host of issues in that wretched budget to be obnoxiously loud about, EVEN IF ultimately the efforts were to fail.

Go ahead and keep buying the “conventional wisdom” the “pragmatism of what is legislatively possible” and the rest. It is your prerogative.

I’ll stick with my vision of what is happening in this country. I’ve been right about where this all has been headed for about 40 years now.

This version of Pelosi you speak is interesting. On healthcare, she was adamant that the ACA include a public option—and the House version did. On Dodd-Frank, she was adamant about the independence of the CFPB, and the bill housed it with the Fed for that reason (until a right wing judge had his way). There is zero chance Democrats would not have attempted to address DACA if they controlled a house of Congress and she was speaker.

The problem is voters, older white ones specifically. Democrats representing those districts are wary of crossing them. Unless that changes, or Trump decides to deal, DACA is over.

Interesting of this Pelosi you speak.

Oh yes sure, she was just ALL about the “public option” that she surely knew was never going to be an option.

Or do you think Obama kept her blind to the game being played. Same thing with Schumer, Bauccus and the whole sorry lot that sold out the masses in favor of Healthcare Monopoly INC.

The same Pelosi that refused to allow any serious consideration of single payer proposals when she was Speaker o’ the House? That Pelosi?

But of course, she was just so insistent that the little people have the “public option”. How quaint.

HR 676? Well, she refuses to co-sponsor the bill because it wouldn’t be “bi-partisan” enough for her, and also because she typically doesn’t co-sponsor bills in her leadership role, except of course when she does.

You do realize that Corporate State Democrats will NEVER allow HR 676 to be seriously considered, much less pushed for in every way they could politically, right?

This is of course the larger vision you miss. Sure you can point to a few tidbits here and there where she seems to be advocating for corporate regulation. Well good for her. Thanks bunches Nancy!

But where was she when she had power to push for investigation into the crimes of the Bush Administration? Huh? Where exactly was she? Well, I’ll tell you. She was on the same side of George W. Bush, Dick Fucking Cheney, Donald Fucking Rumsfeld, John Fucking Yoo, and every other criminal that was responsible for taking this nation to war based on lies (demonstrable) and systematically engaging in a torture program to commit the most heinous of war crimes.

“I have said it before and I will say it again: Impeachment is off the table”

But hey, Obama would take the very same tack when he became President. He would take it a step further, along with the Corporate State Democrats in codifying the crimes of unconstitutional surveillance by the NSA working with the telecommunications companies that of course were sponsoring Corporate State Democrats as legislators.

And Feinstein. I tell ya, I mean she really pulled that whole “investigation” thing off really well in the Senate, in regard to torture. At least to those who didn’t realize it was in reality part of a coverup. Knowing, of course, that the “investigation” would never see the light of day (Obama would take care of this) aside from the “summary” of which she insisted that “mistakes” were made.

Get that? She was exposed to the heinous details of what transpired, but hey, they were “mistakes”, not crimes.

What a sorry lot.

I won’t defend Feinstein. Pelosi passed a public option. She worked hard to put it in there. There was no phony show about it and her passage of it made things tricky for the administration, especially with certain Senators being adamantly against one. History is the opposite of what you say in that regard, however you feel about “corporate” state democrats (really, just politicians from less progressive districts). If not being as progressive as folks here at CD was a fatal flaw in districts across the US, hardcore rightwingers wouldn’t control Congress.

As for war crimes, the problem, like many others, is the American people just don’t care like we do. I am as frustrated with it as you, but I just don’t know what to do. Security theatre is just what our country does. Screaming about being “weak” on whatever security issue is making headlines works on an awful lot of people. If it didn’t, you’d have a lot more Rand Pauls in Congress on the Right, and Ron Wydens on the Left.

History is opposite of what I say in regard to where Corporate State Democrats actually stood on the public option?

Perhaps the DNC version of history, but not in reality.

FACT…Wellpoint wrote a large part of the ACA via Senator Bauccus. FACT…Obama promised Big Insurers and Big Pharma that a public option would not be a part of any legislation that he would sign.

Huh, I really honestly don’t remember Pelosi pushing for the public option. You know, passionate 8 hour long speeches in support of the public option.

I recall, actually, her capitulating quite readily to the Corporate Senate Democrats, expressing her contention that she could support a House reconciliation bill that did not include the public option.

I remember all of this very clearly. The day that the public option officially died, was the day I went to the San Diego Registrar’s office and changed my Party affiliation to Independent.

Making Pelosi out to be a fighter for the public option is just so much propaganda, sorry, but that’s exactly what you are pushing here.

Obama didn’t want the public option, Wellpoint didn’t want the public option, and other Corporate State Democrats that received campaign contributions by Healthcare Monopoly Inc didn’t want the public option.

But I’m supposed to believe, according to you, that the corporate influence is all just a figment of my stuck in the 90s imagination, and has no basis in reality.

Sorry, but you have no chance in ever convincing me that your take on that particular reality, is reality. It isn’t.

It is NOT a matter of the constituents in more conservative districts were against a public option. They would have been thrilled to have such a step toward a single payer system. That it was indeed perceived as such a step by Healthcare Monopoly INC, is the whole reason it did not see the light of day.

Your last paragraph is a perfect example of the problem in regard to how Corporate State Democrats have sold the US public down the river. You make excuses for these jerks who ultimately have supported these wars, supported the people who lied to the public about these wars, and took part in covering up the crimes of these wars, blocked the prosecution of those responsible for these wars and heinous crimes like torture, and indeed even prosecuted whistleblowers trying to do something about it.

Your pinning it on the public just not caring is worthy of a classification of the worst propaganda that comes from those who push these wars to the US public. It’s right along there with all of the propaganda that somehow launching wars of choice that are absolutely EVIL to the nth degree, that result in innocent lives dying in the most brutal way imaginable, are actually what the public wants.

Of course there are those who would support these wars even if the politicians, think tankers, generals, etc were actually truthful about the why these wars are actually being fought, and for whom.

Most however, if they actually were given the truth of the matter, and were actually shown the horror of scenes on the ground of kids heads being separated from their torsos, and the rest of it, would absolutely NOT support these wars.

I have no idea how you can be so dispassionate about these things.

Seems like the propaganda can be effective on many levels.

I am not dispassionate, I think progressive journalism is filled with hucksters out for their own gain. I called the single payer bill in California right here on this site for what it was, a campaign vehicle for a committee chair, in real time. Took nothing but crap for it—but guess who announced he was running for insurance commissioner? The over-hyped progressive press sure said little after participating in the charade. The same with Bernie Sanders drug import “bill” that wasn’t last year. Over-hyped nonsense in the progressive press written for click-bait and Sanders boosterism.

The same could be said about the ACA, which was considered in regular order and received over 500 amendments. Yes, Liz Fowler, a former Wellpoint lobbiest was involved in writing the bill, but so was that dirty sellout Ron Wyden, an advocate for state-based health insurance exchanges. He introduced a bill in 2007 that would have created exchanges similar to those in the ACA, and his language was borrowed in drafting it. That vile sellout “corporate” Senator, great friend of lobbiests, sat on the Finance Committee with Baucus. Oh, and Bernie Sanders sat on Health, Education, Labor, and Pension Committee, which was the other Senate committee that oversaw the drafting of the Senate bill. Maybe things are more complicated than you pretend to “know”?

And while Lieberman and Nelson put the final nails in the public option, guess what the bill did do as passed? It expanded Medicaid in all 50 states (wrecked by the Supreme Court); provided the largest federal funding for community health centers in history (gutted by Republicans); and permitted states to operate their own public options. It also provided $5 billion for high risk insurance pools in its early years. I’m just naming a few of the gawd-awful sellout things it did do.

What I fully expect is that when and if a single payer system passes in this country, the progressive press nonsense purveyors will be there to tell us about the sellouts who designed it with copays and/or let nonprofits like Kaiser operate in it. The “sellout” prism is always enticing to look through, even if it’s often half bullshit.

Oh, and by the way, have you read what Republicans are doing regarding work requirements in Medicaid? Let’s be clear: single payer won’t be a panacea to their assholishness. They are the real wall to single payer.

Thanks for sharing.

Point remains, there has been a slow moving corporate coup in this country, and we are now in the end game.

Social Security will be absolutely gutted by both Republicans and Democrats.

Budgets that increase military spending will be passed no matter what Administration.

Privatization will run rampant across the country, and the corporations driving it will of course have their money accepted by Corporate State Democrats.

And anything the Surveillance State wants, it will get.

I’ve acknowledged the benefits of the ACA, especially for people in States that accepted the expansion of Medicaid. That the bill was so damn full of holes that it could be shredded like it was, is a testament to a half eye being open to see the public benefit poised to wink, and the other eye wide open to keeping a system in place that profits on human misery.

Go ahead, tout that wonderful achievement!!! Have you experienced a huge gap in healthcare coverage in this sick system? I recall wondering if I would ever be able to get healthcare after my employer dumped my coverage at age 50. Had high hopes with an Obama presidency, and then had to wait until 2014 for any benefit to be realized. By then, my issues had become worse and have been chronic ever since.

Having to work full time while not being able to afford such basic life needs sucks beyond belief.

I hope to God you never have to experience it. Now I live in a State that did not expand Medicaid, so I’m back with having no coverage at all.

I simply pray that I don’t have anything major come up, or don’t get the flu, and hope that my mouth full of dental issues doesn’t explode before I have the chance to get myself on my feet.

I’m trying to start my own business, so I keep plugging along hope against hope.

Pardon me if I’m not impressed with how many clucking amendments were negotiated for that wonderful bill to pass.

Meanwhile MILLIONS of US citizens have remained without medical care.

You should pray for them all.

You are talking to someone with a preexisting condition who has full knowledge of what a lapse in coverage can entail. There’s a reason I am no longer self-employed. And I think the same as you: we have been stuck in the aftermath of the Reagan Revolution for way too long.