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Hey, America, You Want a True Conservative Party?

I just need to add that a Third party does not have to WIN to have influence far above the number of seats they might hold and this is true in a FPTP system just as in a PR system.

Just as example. We take a district called John Doe and there 120000 total voters.

Bob The Republican gets 59000 votes.
Jane the Democrat gets 61000 votes. Jane wins.

The Democrats move far to the right and there really no difference between Jane and the Republican that runs 4 years later. The people are miffed at the Democrats though and in the next election there 120000 voters.

Bob the Republican gets 58000 votes.
Jane the Democrat gets 56000 votes.
The Green party gets 6000 votes.

Bob the Republican wins. Jane The Democrat blames the greens but she no different then the Republican so whats the issue?

The 6000 greens say “Maybe if you listen to us we might vote for you next time?”

Is Jane more likely to try and get more votes from the Republicans next time around or is she going to think I lost 6000 votes to the Greens, maybe I should listen to them? If she does try to get Republican votes that next time around is this not the core of the problem and is she not becoming ever more Republican?

This is how Parties in FPTP systems outside the USA that do have third parts do not get too extreme. They will not move ever further right because they can not count on those votes on the left staying with them.

That third party does not have to WIN.


Of course there will be none of these principled compassionate conservatives.

Conservative positions come as a constellation (George Lakoff, Don’t Think of an Elephant); they’re inextricable from each other because they all proceed from the guiding feeling and thus belief that each person is only an individual struggling alone in a harsh universe–not part of a collective or embedded in the whole.

Conservative positions appeal to the abandoned infantile self-centeredness in those who come to identify themselves politically as conservatives, though it’s actually just personal psychological history that’s been given a political label. (“just!” Hmmm.) Personal psychological history (in a full social, historical, ecological, and otheral context) is everything; until we find compassionate expert help in (re)discovering our history and finding and practicing ways to overcome its control over us, with vigilant awareness, unconscious fears, desires and other emotions determine everything we feel, say, and do, including all our relationships—personal, national, religional, and of course, political.

Since the rise of corporations, the money applied to the political process has grown, and has ever more firmly linked politics to corporations. No matter what some theoretical principled conservative believes, there is always a huge crowd to the right who will more completely fulfill the desires of corporations and the rich. The only thing holding them back from iron fascism is the speed at which the public can be manipulated into accepting it via fear, hatred and acclimatization to it.

Corporations and the oligarchs want everyone to accept their dominance by believing the ultimate conservative meme, individuality. It atomizes opposition, reinforces the importance and “divine right” of hierarchy, which they will always top, and cements support for every other conservative position in the constellation.

“…Democrats…may stay home…either from complacency, dissatisfaction, sheer stupidity, or from the fact that their party didn’t bother to mobilize them.”

Oh, come on. Democrats and others on the left will stay home because the vast majority are progressive, and once again the Democratic party has taken their votes and then told them to go fuck themselves.

“The [Democratic] party did not move nearly as far to the left as the GOP has lurched to the right”
That’s safe to say, since the Democratic party has moved lurchingly to the RIGHT, whether following along behind the Republicans or pushing them, or both. Because of their allegiance to the rich and to corporate donors, they reinforce the frames of the far right with every other utterance—individual action, the rich deserve their riches, privatize everything, objectify and commodify everything and everyone. Meanwhile most of the country has moved to the left; large majorities favor climate action, more environmental protections, more worker protections, more wind and solar power and more government help for them, universal health care, higher minimum wage, higher taxes on the rich and corporations, and many other such positions.

PS. Oakeshott’s quote is a bit true, mostly not, and entirely not the point. And they have no respect at all for programs in the safety net; Bill Clinton got rid of Welfare, Biden wants to destroy Social Security, and that’s only the start.

Some observant observations there, but…
“The electorate doesn’t want a center-right third party.”
Lofgren doesn’t say they don’t want a progressive party, which is infinitely more likely. In fact it’s 100% likely, since it already exists and is on the ballot for almost every election in almost all states. (In 2016, the Green Party was on the ballot in 45 states and with official write-in status in 3).

The Green Party mirrors a large majority of the electorate; the party’s positions are the positions of majorities of 70-90% on a large majority of issues.

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Friedman was good on climate before almost anyone in media knew the issue existed. But he’s also always been a milquetoast on everything, like someone who says I know the train is headed off that cliff a mile away at 60 miles an hour; maybe we should write a letter to the editor and get it slowed down some. Anyone got a stamp?

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They are nihilists. They are knowingly and in an organized fashion pushing global civilization and the biosphere toward utter collapse and destruction, and using bribery, extortion, lies, manipulation, and the subversion of what’s left of democracy to do it. In the end, regardless of what people say about it being for profit or politics, it’s because they don’t want to face unpleasant feelings.

The Democrats are the real conservative party and we need a real progressive party.

People should check out Bannon on PBS Frontline talking about taking over the Republican party.

Trump took over the Republican party because they sold their soul a long time ago-----They stand for nothing except greed and hate.

And hats off to Stacy Abrams----she is doing it in Georgia


At the very least every student should be required to pick an outside of class project that involves understanding how the political system works.

You lost me Mike when you said Democrats have a greater respect for the Constitution and the rule of law. There are major factors in the current world order that Democrats and Republicans agree on wholeheartedly, whereas progressives are on the opposite side:

Capital over Labor
War over Peace
Law and Order over Social Justice
Religion over Humanism
Resource Extraction over Ecological Sustainability
Gunboat Diplomacy over Actual Diplomacy
Competition over Cooperation
etc. etc. etc.

The two parties agree on all of it, and that is why progressives are the most dangerous thing to both the Democrat and Republican parties.


Whether a Peoples Party will ever gain enough traction is debatable. However there is already a very viable third party option – namely the Democratic Socialists of America. Their short publication “Democratic Left” is full of optimism and is available online at >ttps://democraticleft.dsausa.org/.

Even more important, even it wasn’t an “Independent” (any more than the Democratic party is primarily focused on building and strengthening democracy in America) party.

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That was an interesting (but very short) piece. It does not seem to be advocating for a 1000 member house because it allows one representative to have more voting power than another (getter more voters to vote for them gives them a higher fraction than 1/1000th of the 1000 votes). There is a lot of detail left out in explaining such a scheme, but I still prefer my 100 seats, 1 senator/ 1 vote setup. Bigger parties have more senators as opposed to 1 senator with more votes (that just looks bad if you ask me).

But thanks for the heads up - if I ever come across a piece that advocates for something along the lines to what I am thinking (probably the most unique thing on what I’m saying is to use a single district over the whole US, there is a lot of talk of smaller multi-member districts such as ~https://www.fairvote.org/what_is_proportional_representation_and_why_do_we_need_this_reform but I don’t see the reason to do anything but the full monty), I’ll let you know.

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Wouldn’t the actions described fly in the face of “pure nihilism” and someone who feels all is meaningless? If they have chosen to do the things they do, then wouldn’t they be existentialists or one of those newfangled “moral nihilists”? They are creating meaning, and possibly pleasure, in a meaningless universe through bribery, extortion, lies, manipulation and subversion.

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Any long term change to the voting system would eventually run into a brick wall called the US Constitution. Enacting legislative workarounds might solve some of the problems, but there would be little guarantee that courts would find them constitutional. A Constitutional Convention is needed for a rewrite of a woefully outdated document, but the people currently sharing power would never allow that to happen or set the rules such that they gain even more. They are happy with the current structure despite their pearl-clutching and grandstanding poses. The question needs posing, “can the solution be found within the current system, if not, what then?”


The meaninglessness people feel is the result of dissociation—what happens when people are overwhelmed, or so relentlessly defeated they despair of connecting to anyone or anything and give up. What we call “meaning” is the cognitive connection counterpart to or manifestation of physical, ie, emotional connection.

There are different flavors and intensities of nihilism. The nihilism that’s rampant on the right wing comes with the rage, hatred, and sadism of its malignant narcissism, trauma, addiction, and attachment problems. It wants to destroy the world and make every living being suffer while it’s happening. Thus: war, inequality, fascism, shaming and addictive religion, ugliness, pollution, and above all, climate catastrophe, the perfect denouement to the sad, sick play of their desires.