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'Huge Win for Democracy': Nationwide Celebrations as NYC Residents Approve Ranked-Choice Voting Ballot Measure

Hey Greenwich,

When I was a young child, the area you live in was considered North Jersey, at least where I was. I was born in the Mt. Laurel - Moorestown area, just east of the Philly - Camden area, Campbell Soup’s tomato growing region years ago and the part of the state that put the “garden” in the Garden State motto just before Camden went into their economic death spiral.
I have to agree with you about Kennedy, I’m convinced he was offered a “deal”, and would love for his financial records to be exposed.

Hi Recon –

Right – Camden became Cherry Hill – or at least some part of Camden.

When you look at the map, Westfield is looks North to me.

Mt. Laurel – almost 50 years later and still no affordable housing.
Yet our towns continue to release land for private luxury homes –
Amazing amount of building going on in Garwood, especially with … think 4 story
luxury housing/apartments? Farm land continues to be disappearing – if you’re
familiar with Colts Neck in Delicious Orchards area, there are immense parcels of
land on … think it’s 539 going East – where there are fruit orchards, farms, but also
a lot of open land. Parks. They’ve just done a tremendous amount of work there …
think it’s in some part water control, redirecting natural streams? But my first
reaction was for housing – luxury of course.

Immediately on Kennedy’s resignation there was some murmurs of something to do
with his son’s employment … maybe scandal. Never did get past the headline and
then disappeared. But certainly seems more than coincidental with Scalia’s “death.”

Though the way McConnell had to do it – and got away with it – is still shocking –
9/10 months of NOT permitting Obama’s nominee to have a hearing!!
Maybe they were caught flat-footed by the death because I doubt it would have been
planned to do something that illegal. At least it looked illegal to me.
Can you imagine Dems trying to do that to a GOP nominee?

Scalia has a son coming up in government – he had a ton of kids.

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Hey Greenwich,
To be clear, I never understood the north-south thing in NJ., I think it was more about the divide between Philly and NYC, than anything to do with Jersey itself.
That side of my family has farming roots that go back to at least the mid 1800’s in that area, so I know exactly what your talking about with the expansion of suburbia. It’s sad and from a food production standpoint, not very smart. I remember playing in large peach orchards as a young child there, and seeing acres and acres of tomatoes and other crops, all gone to provide room for subdivision after subdivision now. The same thing is happening where I live now, there are many areas here with moderate-to-poor soils that could be developed with little impact on food production, but here where the soil is moderate-to-good with natural topsoil (a rare commodity here on the Gulf Coast) , seems to be developing faster than the other areas. It’s all going to bite us in the butt eventually.

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Think this is happening pretty much everywhere.
Just noticed the other day, House had taken up issue of “affordable housing.”

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Ranked-choice voting is more aptly termed Instant Runoff Voting (IRV) since there are other ranked voting systems. IRV is, arguably at least, an improvement over the system of plurality voting that we traditionally use. But that is not saying much; there are a number of serious problems with IRV:

IRV fails to allow a voter to express opposition to a candidate in any meaningful way. Moreover, constructing the list is difficult for voters and often forces a voter to construct arbitrary distinctions.

IRV can make result in faulty outcomes that do not reflect voter sentiment. This is characteristic of all ranked voting systems, not just IRV.

The basic approach to eliminating candidates in the way that IRV uses does not make much sense when examined at all closely.

IRV can force a voter to make strategic decisions, much as plurality voting does.

IRV makes the counting of votes particularly difficult; IRV is different, but not apparently better than the much older Borda system of voting that makes for much easier counting.

Ranked Choice - otherwise known as proportional representation which has been part of many other democracies for a century or more. In addition to forcing the incumbents and other front runners, it helps many of the marginalized parties - e.g. the Greens, Socialists, Independents etc - to do much better, even to the point of holding the balance of power occasionally. It won’t remove money as an influence, but it will help to offset its power.

Proportional Representation is a system for electing legislators where voters vote for a party, not for individuals. The representatives are chosen so that each party receives approximately the number of members that is in proportion to the number of votes for that party. It has nothing in particular to do with ranked voting.

There are many different kinds of ranked voting, the earliest one appears to be the Borda voting system. The most complicated ranked voting system seems to be the instant runoff voting system which simulates a series of plurality voting elections, each of which removes one candidate. This is a curious concept since plurality voting has long been recognized to deliver defective outcomes when there are more than two candidates. In essence, the idea is to use a series of defective elections to narrow the field down to just two candidates so that the last election will be legitimate.

Arrow’s theorem demonstrates that no ranked voting system can avoid being seriously defective. It seems curious that it remains so popular when there clearly arebetter systems available.