But it was ISIS that did the killing so we condemn it! Will they condemn the next gay massacre if it's by their white christian conservative friends? I think not. May they all go to their so called hell.
Trump's (unofficial) slogan "Make America Hate Again" is working! He must be so proud.
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Fearing wrath to descend upon me among commenters on this site, here goes anyway. First off, I've been waiting for a source to point out, "Earning cries of 'hypocrisy' from many observers, anti-gay politicians expressing sympathy for LGBTQ victims of the massacre". As to whom these "many observers" are who are issuing "cries of 'hypocrisy'", I know not . Certainly these said "many observers" appear neither on national television nor newspapers, at least as far as I am aware. Rather, "observers" appear more like Donald Trump. Ignored is the homophobic nature of the mass killing, substituting for the victims the patriotism of the admittedly accurate term "Americans". Although I am unsure if this constitutes hypocrisy by many of the"observers", but it sure does constitute weasle-i-ness. So, *Trudy Ring, ... writer for The Advocate", don't bet on "all of these expressions of sympathy from anti-gay officials mean[ing] that those who haven't been allies 'will recognize our common humanity'". Let's be blunt here, "anti-gay officials" don't even consider gays human. Like Donald Trump, humanity will be ascribed to the Orlando victims only insofar as establishing another excuse to beat up on Muslims in order to insure another round of retaliation. Oh, yeah, and when we again blast the crap out of Middle Easterners in retaliation, as repeated over-and-over on Good Morning America and its ilk, "the whole world will still morn" our loss ... but said "whole world" obviously doesn't give a rat's derriere about the loss we administer to Middle Easteners ... and so it goes ....
After some contemplation, I had to conclude that Hillary's massive bombing campaign in Libya was truly a hate inspired terrorist act.
More than ever
I was in jerusalem last year at the gay pride during the attack by a mentally deranged Jewish person. I never heard Hillary call it Jewish Extremist terror. Now I'm in FL for this, and our governor can't even use the word gay - but all the politicos who drool over Saudi Arabia are calling it islamic extremism instead of the act of a mentally deranged individual who happened to be Muslim. It's all politics. If Rick Scott can say the word Jew but not gay, why is it that the USA isn't funding a whole new country to protect gays instead of Jews. The world just gets crazier and crazier.
so why not an operation rainbow carpet - and since gays have ties all over the world, they can just pick a piece of real estate and start their own country and the US can help gays escape to that new country... kind of like zionism but 4 gays.... queeronism... why not take half of Israel for it? actually, i don't think creating countries for groups like jews or gays is the answer, even if gays can't choose to be gay... i think its through education and other nonviolent means and by not sending our funding to countries like saudi arabia that are actively supporting ISIS to overthrow assad.
Where's the hard evidence that Clinton was "instrumental"?
Produce the hard evidence showing her either selling the weapons, putting the weapons into the hands of others in those 4 countries or creating policy to do so.
I want unequivocal, verifiable, objective video/audio footage proving the allegations you've made here. And each piece of "evidence" will be evaluated on the merits including the above 3 criteria, the source of the information as well as the credibility of "characterizations" made by certain people using language.
No gibberish please. Just links proving your allegations.
That's your task. And I'll grade your response out of 10.
Are they the same republican hypocrites that attack and harass Planned Parenthood?
ROFL you ass hats and your hypocrisy are funny.
As HRC is a good Neoliberal, I doubt it because of her support for the Transnational Capitalist (or Corporate) Class. It's all part of the plan... False flag deception as discussed yesterday? Too early to tell. Here's an interesting article from "Project Censored" about G4S, the shooter's employer. The last paragraph is telling:
More info on the TCC: "Private Military Companies in Service to the Transnational Capitalist Class"
Oh -- it's "in the emails"!!!!!!!!!! Hallelujah.
Well then I guess we can just take the emails as unequivocal evidence of Clinton being responsible ("instrumental") in ensuring that U.S. weapons end up on the streets of other countries and conclude that the matter is closed -- all thanks to you ....
Do you suppose you might need something else to buttress your weak case?
In other words, once again, where is the hard, unequivocal evidence proving your allegations?
You do understand what "hard evidence" is? Emails do not constitute hard evidence. I write emails numerous times a day regarding research endeavors and nothing materializes out of most of them.
So no more assumptions, generalizations or jumping to conclusions. They're THE #1 source of misinformation in the world.
Just the hard evidence supporting your thesis please.
The emails "prove" nothing. And the entire nature of what constitutes reliable, verifiable, unequivocal information and how to formulate the most informed conclusions seems to be a challenge on this message board.
Indeed this message board has almost become an echo-chamber of sorts -- very much analogous to the right-wing echo-chamber we've poked fun at for many years now.
To me it is obvious that the majority of mass shootings have one common denominator. The gunman usually has well documented mental problems. Why didn't the FBI interview the Orlando gunman's x-wife? The news media certainly did immediately after the shootings. There for the whole world to hear she explained that he was bi-polar and had mental problems. The FBI had at least two prior opportunities to check the gunman for the possibility of mental health issues......and they obviously did not. Shame on them!! It should be the first thing noted before all else.
You do realize you're trying to reason with individuals who reside within an echo-chamber that has emerged on the left?
This group has become as programmed, polarized and "cognitively rigid" as the mental midgets we used to make fun of in the right-wing echo-chamber of make-believe facts.
I never thought I'd see the day ...
The primary and most successful tool of the ruling class against the working class is the ability to constantly cause strife, discord, division, hate and distrust (etc.) as a means to keep the working class divided and at each others throats to keep their attention off the real root reason(s) causing the social psychopathy in the first place ... the controlling dominance of the elite ruling class over the working class. The ruling class knows the gig is over when (or if) the working class becomes united. The message of:
- Gays and those who are not,
- Republicans and those who are not,
- Those of a particular religious belief and those who don't believe, and
- Conservatives against progressives,
is nothing more than a diversion! Why, why, why do so many people keep falling into the trap of diversion day after day after day?
The mass murder and loss of (gay) human lives is an absolute tragedy. However, the root cause is killing tens of thousands every day! Until the root cause is destroyed, these social tragedies will continue. Yes, I am talking about class warfare.
"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....”
― Noam Chomsky, The Common Good
"Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.”
― Noam Chomsky
Source of quotes: http://www.legendsofanarchism.com/chomsky-quotes.html
Omar Mateen, an Afghan-American, was the son of Afghan immigrants, but, while he worshipped and admired ISIS, Omar Mateen wasn't affiliated with ISIS per se. That being said, Omar Mateen was more than likely a deranged individual who acted alone when he gunned down all those people in the nightclub down in Orlando.
By selecting a single emphasis point that is one out of four to oppose, the entire intended point of my message (post) is rendered impotent. If your selected emphasis point had been posted by itself, your opposition would be entirely correct.
By the way, I am a bisexual male. I know full well the prejudices and hate against those in the LGBTQ community. For the record, I have experienced far more hate and near-violent taunts and assaults as a bisexual man from gays than from homophobic straights I've encountered - including those standing outside a gay club at closing time in drunken state of agitation looking for trouble. But ... that's just my experience.
Additionally, I was in no way shape or form condoning the actions of the homophobic, mentally-ill shooter. I was simply attempting to encourage the application of more critical thinking and analysis in responding to this isolated tragic event caused by a homophobic lunatic.
Thank you for responding to my post (rant ) - I appreciate it!
Do you have any credibility at all?
That was rhetorical btw. Your comments are sufficient to give intelligent, informed people ample insight into your integrity -- or lack thereof.
Three-year old comments about "Hitlery" and the "Lancome Lady" certainly don't help your cause.
I was seeking "details" from your comrade ("enemyofwar") that proved cause and effect. You know those dastardly little specifics that connect the dots all the way from Hillary Clinton to various intermediates, to the guns landing on the street in the 4 countries that were mentioned by your ideological colleague.
Those crucial details.
The SOS is a diplomatic position. The SOS might be able to give "orders" to her staff at the Sate Dept. but giving orders about gun-running is neither in her job description nor does it fall under her purview. The President, Military, Pentagon, CIA, special ops personnel, etc. give the kind of orders you've alluded to.
And what specific orders were you referring to? Where are they? And what specific data do you have to substantiate your assertions?
Were you there the day she wrote a given email and then certain weapons magically appeared in Libya as a direct result of that email? And of course you have unequivocal proof that it was her email that resulted in those weapons getting there.
Disregard. Of course you have no proof. Why? Because no such proof exists. And that's what happens when unmitigated hate compromises one's ability to look at information objectively. Clinton probably doesn't even know the difference between an AR-15 and an AK-47.
Any one of thousands of gun-runners could have been instrumental in facilitating arms reaching the streets of those countries. The manufacturers of the guns and the military-industrial complex are the usual suspects. Why? Because that's their area of expertise. And they work together to secure higher profits for weapons manufacturers and greater positions of power for military personnel. That's the way it works.
Now we are quite aware of the gun-running responsibilities of Ambassador Chris Stevens. That's reliable information. But there's no reliable evidence that Clinton had any awareness of what Stevens was doing in channeling weapons to the anti-Assad rebels in Syria from Libya. But it's also no coincidence that there was a CIA annex about a mile from the Benghazi outpost with personnel that worked with Stevens in facilitating the gun-running.
In such matters the less others know -- and the few that know -- the better the likelihood of a successful outcome, whatever that might be. It's also possible that feedback about various goings-on in various countries might be passed from SOS staff to military/defense personnel. Sometimes they're in a better position to acquire information. But it's a virtual impossibility that Clinton herself collected any of that information on the ground. On the basis of her physical capabilities alone she wouldn't have been someone who collected and assessed that information. Rather, that information would have come from her expert-subordinates and she would simply have been a relay person for such information. Alternatively there might be direct communication between certain SOS staff with expertise in certain areas and defense/intelligence personnel. How it all comes together would likely depend on myriad factors.
It's nothing but supposition. It cannot be anything but that. That I have to explain this to you borders on the absurd.
In any event the emails prove absolutely NOTHING and if that's the way you evaluate information, draw conclusions and engage in the decision-making process (which almost certainly reflects an ongoing maladaptive pattern of thinking) -- any potential for intelligent discourse becomes relegated to the realm of the impossible.
Stay completely away from science. You might actually learn what "proof" actually means.
Your sources are an embarrassment. If you had any conscious awareness you too would be embarrassed.
There is no proof of anything you've argued. None. That you don't understand that is clear. That pattern of "not understanding what is and is not reliable information" (and determining cause and effect) is likely to continue for a lifetime (see research at Harvard, Princeton, Oxford and the University of Chicago).
We won't accuse you of ignorance and abject stupidity. You just have difficulties with clear thinking, paranoid delusions and understanding the world around you.
Good luck with that.