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Hypocrisy of Russia-Did-It Stories Is Hard to Stomach


#1

Hypocrisy of Russia-Did-It Stories Is Hard to Stomach

Janine Jackson

It is, of course, worth knowing what involvement any other country might have had in the US election, but elite media’s consumption with the Russia-did-it storyline so far is discouraging to say the least.


#2

Yes, of course we've messed with other's elections, but does that mean that we should not care if another nation messes with our election? The government announced way over a year ago that this was happening. The FBI contacted the DNC "help" desk (kinda like the receptionist) and told them they had been hacked. The FBI never bothered to contact any of the DNC officials. At this time, it seems to me, the question is, "should our intelligence agencies half way explain with some evidence or should they lay it all out and compromise future investigations by giving away a lot of secret info and possibly endangering certain "moles?" Another question is, "should our intelligence agencies simply have kept quiet and retaliated with all the fury and effort they could dream up against the Russian nation and especially against Putin and his allies?


#3

Stating the Obvious - Sarcasm Alert:

Even though the CIA has't given specific proof, we have to accept their allegations against the government of Iraq Russia.

There is no doubt that they have Weapons of Mass Destruction hacked the DNC and Weaponized Wikileaks.

The US has no other option but to respond militarily militarily.


#4

After engaging in anti-democratic practices to ensure the defeat of Bernie Sanders in the Democrat Primary, the Democrat Party power brokers demanded that progressives shut up, fall into line, and support Hillary Clinton. The Democrat Party power brokers chided progressives arguing that if they didn't vote for the 'lesser evil' - Hillary Clinton - they would give the election to Donald Trump.

Now that Hillary Clinton, has lost and the Democrats have lost ground in the House, the Senate, and State legislatures, how has the Democrat Party responded?

Rather than introspection and engagement with progressives, the Democrat Party brokers are racing to the far right in the efforts to promote McCarthyist anti-Russian hostility.

As they beat the drums of war, what excuse will Democrat Party brokers use to demand, once again, that progressives shut up and fall into line to support war?


#5

It's extremely interesting to me that so many leftists (and sometimes pretend leftists) would choose to believe Trump and Putin over US intelligence agencies. It's also interesting that quite a few folks think that any criticism or economic sanctions, etc. means war is likely.


#6

Obama has said that the US will retaliate. And from his own words, he was deliberately murky on what that meant: it could be hacking and spying, it could be war; some of it the US public might find out about, some of it we may not.

What are we more scared about: the possibility of Russians hacking DNC email servers, or the possibility of a secret war between the two countries holding the largest nuclear arsenals? Holy crap, what's wrong with this a**h****?!


#7

Without conclusive evidence one should remain skeptical. This is what scientific method teaches us and what Carl Sagan preached to us. it's a pretty easy principle to follow and more Americans should try it.


#8

nephwesam, OK, this is what APPEARS to have happened. Russians (?) hacked into emails of both DNC and RNC. They only released the stuff that could be used against democrats. Corporate media loved the drip, drip of info. Right-wingers in the FBI made things look bad about everything to do with Clinton emails when, in fact, there was basically nothing there. The right wing attack machine had a field day (actually for 2 decades) in attacks against Clinton. Facebook and email fake news went crazy. I like the idea of trying to do something about all these issues even though there are no great solutions. Giving up on any of these issues is a grave mistake.


#10

Messing with other's elections and more:

Of course, there is probably more that has not be made public.

Do you, MonkesTale, justify this on the grounds of 'American Exceptionalism' or simply on the grounds that the US is entitled to impunity?

Now, that there is circumstantial evidence of Russian government hacking into DNC emails, how does President Obama respond?

Does he work on toning down the heat, de-escalating the crisis, and promoting diplomacy?

No, he states:

"I think there is no doubt that when any foreign government tries to impact the integrity of our elections ... we need to take action. And we will — at a time and place of our own choosing. Some of it may be explicit and publicized; some of it may not be." - President Obama (Source: http://www.npr.org/2016/12/15/505775550/obama-on-russian-hacking-we-need-to-take-action-and-we-will )

It looks like our Nobel Peace Prize winning President is about to take actions that will lead the US more deeply into military engagements.


#11

To my way of thinking, "it's just so bananas" that EVERYTHING is about a US power struggle and there's no way Putin could possibly have anything to do with it.


#12

The DNC, with the complicity of the MSM/NPR propaganda machine, continues to bray its message like its representative symbol " we were hacked, we were hacked" when all technological information points to a DNC insider leak. People do get disgusted with the leadership and cheating within their organization and leak it. Big difference between a leak and a hack.


#13

Huh? My comment was about Obama's recent speech in which he seems to have asserted his right to wage a secret war against Russia.


#14

For goodness sakes, we KNOW that the DNC was HACKED way over a year ago. For all I know, there may well have been hackers and leakers. Personally, I think the Podesta thing involved a hack that was given to someone who gave it to WikiLeaks.


#15

I don't believe Obama, Clinton, the Dems, the CIA, the FBI, the military, the Republicans, Trump, Putin, the corporate press or any of the ruling class. Any trust any of these people may have had (of any) has been entirely squandered. NONE of them deserve any trust or respect when all they've earned, as far as us lowly plebs are concerned, is the precise opposite.


#16

Encourage people to study up on the "Deep State" by reading books like Talbot's "Devil's Chessboard" and Janney's "Mary's Mosiac" and Perkins' "The New Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" and the book "Dark Money" for some starters. Money and power is what these people want; complete world wide control of everything. This is what my generation was taught to fear about the USSR, China and communism. Turns out it was us we should have feared, as the world does now. The monsters taste blood in the form of their victory which now seems so close to them. Their plans are in a little chaos at the moment. Pay close attention to the beast which is backed into a corner!


#17

Personally, I always kinda liked the old Reagan quote, "Trust but verify." At this time, I think the preponderance of evidence is with the Russian hacking charge. I do not think it is an absolute certainty at this time. As I see it, we need to put at least a degree of trust in some politicians or else we should simply live our lives as we choose while paying no attention to politics. Either choice has its merits.


#18

So let's make the assumption that the Russians DID effect the outcome of the US elections, (though there is no clear evidence).
What are we going to do about it? Start a war with Russia over it? A nuclear war that destroys all life on the planet, fought over email hacks?
Create more sanctions against Russia, thus, to some degree starving the (innocent) Russian people in an attempt to get them to overthrow Putin? When has that ever worked, though the US has tried that several times?
Especially considering that the US itself has effected foreign elections and overthrown democratically elected leaders all over the world, Obama should just work on tightening the security of the emails, and drop the whole thing about Russia.


#19

This is also what the ugly sordid history of the CIA teaches us.


#20

So let's make the assumption that the Russians DID effect the outcome of the US elections, (though there is no clear evidence).

Agreed that current evidence available for public to see is lacking. This conversation is for the hypothetical and (IMO) not unreasonable case that Russia attempt to affect the outcome of the elections. I tend to doubt that they succeeded but cannot be sure.

What are we going to do about it? Start a war with Russia over it? A nuclear war that destroys all life on the planet, fought over email hacks?

I don't believe anyone has suggested it, including Obama in this mornings NPR story. It cannot be that we cannot oppose actions of someone just because they have nuclear weapons. If that were the case nobody would be allowed to criticize the United States, not a position that I take.

Create more sanctions against Russia, thus, to some degree starving the (innocent) Russian people in an attempt to get them to overthrow Putin? When has that ever worked, though the US has tried that several times?

Not sure I agree that sanctions never work. Do assume that it is hard to make sanctions work without affecting everyday people.

Especially considering that the US itself has effected foreign elections and overthrown democratically elected leaders all over the world, Obama should just work on tightening the security of the emails, and drop the whole thing about Russia.

I do not agree we should just drop the whole thing (under this hypothetical case described at the beginning of the post) just because of actions the US has taken in the past. I DO agree that going forward (because we cannot change the past) we should keep those actions to a bare minimum. Of course, since this is all hypothetical I will, in fact, agree to go into the past and change all of those actions :slight_smile:


#21

Fake news! Fake news! I lived through all the media supported government lies of McCarthyism, Vietnam War (veteran), severe racism (grew up in the South), Cuban Missile crises, Invasion of Laos, overthrow of many elected - legitimate governments of Central and S America, Kennedy/MLK/other black leaders assassinations, lies re Invasion of Iraq and the deaths and he'll on Earth that has created for millions here and around the world stolen elections (2000/ 2004 and the Dem primary of 2016 are most well known) I could go on far into the night as you well know. No other country in the history of the world has this kind of history. So what is it that makes the US so special and God's blessed empire?