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"I'm Not Going to Be Bullied": Michigan Governor Rebukes Trump Aide's Call for Uprising Over Covid-19 Measures

Originally published at http://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/11/16/im-not-going-be-bullied-michigan-governor-rebukes-trump-aides-call-uprising-over


The sooner these gangsters are shown the door the better.


Yes, but there are many more in waiting. If Biden doesn’t change much, he has promised to not change anything, then they will be back in power again. The Democrats are far more aggressive in fighting the left than they are the right or (obviously) their donors. Given that things are going to get progressively worse in the absence of pretty big structural changes and given that the capitalist system is not sustainable if we want to avoid ecological collapse, and given that the so called “moderates” have nothing to offer on policy what so ever to most people, this is a pretty dire situation.

The Democrats are once again choosing Pelosi and Schumer to lead them. It is a party that is comically short on anything that matters, and those in charge of it fail upwards time and time again. If there was an actual opposition to the far right, we could actually put them on the defensive. But, again, that isn’t who controls the Democratic Party, so the right will not be put on the defensive and doesn’t have to square with supporting deeply unpopular and damaging policies.


Very true! Instead of an actual opposition Party we have a fake opposition Party!


Well of course all those things are true and we will have to fight against them but there is a basic and decisive difference between fascism and bourgeois liberal democracy.


This applies to this guy Atlas. It’s from the book “Sully”, about Sully Sullenberg’s Flight 1549 into the Hudson Rover in January of 2009. The entire book can be read as a critique of our current dilemma, where for profit only corporations cut costs at the expense of everyone.

These are the words of a senior airline pilot nearing retirement, looking back over the negative changes in the airline business over his career - and it is exactly what I have seen as well. There are elites and managers who do the elite’s bidding - and then there are people who do their jobs well despite the elites and the managers. There is only one competent class left - and it isn’t the elites and the managers:

"We were hired for our judgement. Now we are being evaluated for our compliance."

  • p.191, softcover edition, “Sully”

We have never had true democracy here. And, since Bill Clinton, the Dems have been a very-willing part of the corporate oligarchy dominating U.S. domestic and foreign policies for decades.

If Biden and the other corporate Dems such as Pelosi & Schumer do not act swiftly to MATERIALLY help the 99%, another, far worse Trump (educated, smart, polished) will emerge and take back power.

“The Squad” and other progressives, with our financial assistance, should seriously consider forming a U.S. Workers’ Party to counter the two corrupt, corporate-imperialist parties now dominating the U.S.


This might be the basis for a good zombie movie plot. “Zombies Arise! You have nothing to lose but your lives! So what’s stopping you?”

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I hear you, but the difference is that bourgeois liberal democracy that is wedded to capitalism (neoliberal or another version, doesn’t matter at this point) 100% leads to fascism. The international economy, the way it has been structured, has been fascist from the get go. I mean, what is the WTO or the IMF but institutions there to stop governments from controlling capital, and to undermine democracy? When the WTO gutted portions of the Clean Air Act and the Endangered Species Act within months of its existence, was that not the seeds of fascism? When the international economy is set up to allow capital to be entirely footloose, able to spill tons of pollutants into ecosystems at will and situated to undermine unions, is that not the seeds of fascism? How about automation, without any analysis of alternative ownership structures like public sector enterprises and worker-owned enterprises, austerity, mass privatizations, deregulation, and the total corruption of democracy? When fascism is on the doorstep, you do all you can to fight it. I was happy Biden beat Trump, dreading him having power. But, if you don’t see radical changes then it is an endless cycle that only leads to collapse. The Democrats are set to name the same group of worthless, loser, corrupt hacks to lead them in the House and Senate. Most rank and file members are utterly lost as far as connecting individuals seeking power and what they will do with their power. I fully expect, if Biden doesn’t run, for Cuomo, mayor Pete and Harris to be the frontrunners in 2024, and that is just as pathetic as it is disastrous. With them, you never fight fascism at all. You just beat it back a bit, and at some point that even becomes impossible because of worsening societal conditions. I, personally, think we are the major country that is most certain to rapidly collapse in the face of the environmental crisis. We are simply incapable in our society and political systems to change what needs to change in the time we have. But, we should try anyway and should realize the importance of working outside of the Democratic Party, even if we sometimes have to take part in that rotten party.


What the Dems need is a ferocious, national law firm that will immediately sue and push for criminal prosecution of anyone who incites violence and insurrection.
This should include pushing for removal of medical license for Atlas, and removal of law license for Barr.
Governor Whitmer is clearly being targeted for violent reprisals by Trump and his cult, and there has to be a criminal or civil remedy to punish the Fuhrer and his cult.
This article is about the ongoing criminality and violence of the Fuhrer and his minions, not about neoliberalism, the flaws of Democrats, etc.
It is bizarre and not helpful to see, on any article no matter what the topic but especially on articles about Trump’s unprecedented threat to Americans like Governor Whitmer, that people comment about irrelevant, deflective and arcane topics rather than focusing on the evil people who are trying to destroy our country right now.


Well we have never had socialism either. But anyway the point is that bourgeois liberal democracy offers more space to fight for it than totalitarian fascism. That doesn’t mean we support Biden & Co. from here forward, or that we did not have to make a responsible choice between corporate liberalism and fascism. . On this I agree more neoliberalism will produce an even more virulent fascist challenge.


Don’t agree with all of that but I agree that more neoliberalism will lead to catastrophe. To cut to the chase, we need to be better on the left or we will lose. There was a good conversation on the importance of organizing vs. mobilizing, and how real working class analysis can infuse it, in this long discussion between Jane McAlevy and Adolph Reed.


You first must define this, yes? We have never had a socialist system, we have plenty of examples of very popular and successful socialist programs though. NASA, Medicare and Medicaid (both far more efficient than the private health insurance system), Social Security, local police and fire departments, the TVA, the post office, the VA, the local public library, the Bank of North Dakota, municipally owned enterprises, worker-owned enterprises, etc. There have been few capitalist success stories in recent years, and even in the instances where you can show dynamism, say in tech or biotech, most of the technological breakthroughs were actually developed in the state/military sector. So, even in that instance, when capitalism has realized breakthroughs in recent decades it has been led by state investment. The fact of the matter is that most people support some socialism in their lives, society in the end couldn’t exist without it or even communist elements. I mean, your house burns down, your local fire department puts it out if it can. You use that service based on need, and you contribute what you can. If socialism was totally missing from our society, it would collapse. It is not a coincidence that society is in fact falling apart while most socialist elements in our society are being dismantled.

What don’t you agree with? I am just curious.


Isn’t corporatism, at least as expressed here, a form of inverted socialism? Privatized profits and socialized losses?

Agree that most things you’ve listed as “socialist” are still some of the best parts of our society.


Socialism to me and most socialists I follow is based on some semblance of worker self-management and often worker-ownership. Because of this, I don’t regard the USSR as a socialist project. Maybe, if decisions early on were different, it could have developed into that, but it was a state capitalist system. Sweden in the 1970’s, when it was debating to transition to a worker-owned economy, that would have been something closer to socialism, at least as I see it, that and the increasing de-commodification of services like healthcare, housing and education. But, even in Sweden in recent decades, the economic system has moved more towards commodification.

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Well a couple of points then I have to go. What you are describing (Medicare etc.) is social democracy, which reformist socialists call socialism but I don’t. In terms of what I don’t agree with you offer a floating idea of what fascism is, so the IMF is fascist but the Dem Party has the “seeds of fascism.” This is conceptually weak. But to go back to the original point, social democracy would be preferable to fascism. It is what Nina Turner calls having to “eat half a bowl of shit.”

Perhaps one way to think about it is the way MAS talks about it, a movement towards socialism.

Further evidence of deliberate intent to infect USA with Covid as thoroughly as possible – public-health sabotage on the level of a crime against humanity – from this administration. USA’s Covid death-toll is also taking off now, clipping one second off the pace every day. Today someone dies of Covid, somewhere in USA, every 70 seconds. They’re doing this on purpose, in full daylight, and yet nearly half of us vote to keep the creeps, or else imagine anyone at all could be half as bad. Nowhere in the world has an agent of contagion outperformed Orangeman. This gang does it on purpose, because predators make out like bandit billionaires when the rest of us suffer – just ask Mr Dow Jones.

Why do we keep hearing expressions of speechless shock? What will it take for some of us to understand: Clearly they’re doing this on purpose, people!

A brief history of COVID-19 cases (latest CDC numbers):

> WEEK    9 WEEKS              CASES
>         ENDING          NEW       TOTAL
>   9.  03/08/2020         422         422
>  18.  05/10/2020   1,324,066   1,324,488
>  27.  07/12/2020   1,972,111   3,296,599
>  36.  09/13/2020   3,206,431   6,503,030
>  45.  11/15/2020   4,481,368  10,984,398

That actually makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

Yeah, cooked right into their constitution is the clause, “communism when the people are ready, but socialism for now,” and then they pretty much abandoned that, too. Russia…

It’s a bit annoying that several constitutional monarchies in Europe that have been consistently socialist have better functioning democracies than here in the US. I, for one, would really like to see democracy actually attempted here in my lifetime. I’m pretty convinced that it’s never been possible under capitalism.