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In 'Clear Violation of Domestic and International Law,' Trump Bombs Syria


#221

Agree with you – especially re non-violent revolution.

HOWEVER, the powers in control pretty much always ensure that Elites survive
and are present on both sides to take over again.

The fall of the Berlin Wall seemed to surprise them and leave them a bit on the
outside – but efforts to infiltrate and co-opt control of Russia seems to be doing
more than the CIA simply nibbling around the edges. NATO sits on their doorstep.
Can’t say much about this, but think Putin has spoken of threats of criminal activity
and rumor was that GHW Bush arranged for strengthening of their Mafia there.
Perhaps someone else here can speak more informatively about that – or deny it?

They have long held patterns they stick to – and many long used tools in their toolbox.


#222

George –

Interesting –

Probably a better way to post this …

but while we have time to think about organizing something in protest . . .

MOTHERS’ DAY and FATHER’S DAY are excellent times to speak out against violence –
stick to making it community wide rather than DC.

Think that’s where the success of the STUDENT’s movement really is – communities/ town-wide.

Easier to create a sense of togetherness via children, our schools, our interest in our towns and communities.

Many positives about bringing citizens out in this way, centered in their towns.

Original purpose of Mother’s Day was anti-war.


#223

Bingo!! You get the cigar!!!


#224

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly, it’s fascism; but, Mattis likely answers to higher level fascists. From what I’ve read, the idea that the President of the U.S. and his administration have the final say on foreign policy may be somewhat simplistic. The power structure extends into the Deep State and beyond, to people we rarely, if ever, read about, who have been manipulating our government’s actions through each successive presidency, regardless whether it’s been Republican or Democrat.


#225

Why not include Israel in the violent name calling? We have just witnessed that rabid country slaughter some 40 Palestinians and shoot some 1500 more. Imagine the US doing something like that on , say, the Mexican border.
Zuckerberg’s Facebook created the Rohingya slaughter in Burma promoting fake news on its pages, perhaps as a test exercise of it’s potential power, and Israel sold the Burmese the weapons to do it with. What a coinky dink.
When President Carter banned weapons sales to Guatemala in a vain attempt to avoid a genocide there over mineral exploitation from indigenous land, the Israelis again stepped in to sell the junta its weapons.
What Israel cannot do on its own, it gets stupid American sheep to do for it.
So maybe Israel deserves to be included in “the most violent” list…


#226

The US created ISIS and continues to support it. The Jewnited States of America is sick from top to bottom. I see no difference whatsoever between Nazi Germany and Nazi America.


#227

Plainly, what you Greenwich believe happened during the latter part of and following WWII, and what I believe happened, same period, differ markedly. Enough that one of us, perhaps both, must believe it wrong.

I don’t see value in arguing over that history here and at this time. I simply want to note that you believe that several high ideals of that period should be enforced on the USAmerica, even if they were never adopted in a treaty following the war. Such as

  • No nation (meaning the USA) shall attack its own populace.
  • No nation shall attack (meaning the USA and Western nations) shall attack another nation without getting Security Council approval.
  • No nation shall possess or use poison gas.
  • No nation shall torture anyone.
  • Every nation (particularly the USA) shall get rid of nuclear weapons.
  • Racism is evil, and USA must mend its errors.
  • Every nation (particularly the USA) must provide healthcare for all its citizens (Universal Declaration of Human Rights)
  • Every nation (particularly the USA) must protect the right of workers to form unions to demand better conditions.
  • No nation shall possess landmines.
  • And more, etc. etc. etc.

Progressives are sharp on demanding that the USA live up to those high standards. They seem blind to anyone else violating them. (Perhaps for Chomsky reasons that the don’t want the USA doing anything militarily to other nations that do violate them…)


#228

Presidents bomb nations in the “Defense” of the US.

Ultra-partisans picking and choosing what is “illegal” is sadly believed by some.


#229

“most corrupt” - You crack me up


#230

Have to agree –

At time of Cuban Missile Crisis you can read that JFK and Khrushchev were both
mindful that that seeking peaceful solution could move their military leaders to a
military coup.

And that’s only the first layer of resistance, I imagine?


#231

Smile. I won’t speak whether they were mindful of it during the crisis. I will remark that Khrushchev was ousted by dissident members of the Communist party in 1964, in part because of foreign policy ‘failures’ like the Cuban missile crisis.
– & not the first time it had been attempted against Khrushchev…

As for Kennedy, I expect that many here believe and will continue to believe that Kennedy was killed by someone(s) in our own government, despite a high pile of evidence that Kennedy was shot killed by a pro-Cuban loner who saw an opportunity right in front of him and took it.


#232

a2 –

There were 3 very strong movers for peace at the time – JFK, Khrushchev and Pope John XXIII.
They were ALL gone very quickly - disappeared and/or otherwise eliminated.

As for Kennedy, I expect that many here believe and will continue to believe that Kennedy was killed by someone(s) in our own government, despite a high pile of evidence that Kennedy was shot killed by a pro-Cuban loner who saw an opportunity right in front of him and took it.

There is NO evidence that JFK was killed by Oswald or any other mysterious “pro-Cuban loner.”
Rather “Oswald was working for the CIA on high level assignments and probably also for the FBI.”
E. Howard Hunt in deathbed confessions also makes clear that it was a government coup led by
LBJ - and quite logically it couldn’t have been carried out without total control by the next president.
Since then, the right wing/CIA has had control of our government. The cover up continues on still.


#233

Interesting. I’m old enough to remember the non stop beegees paying on the radio for years so I’m shocked. Maybe because they were playing several of their songs over and over and not one? I remember being so sick of their music and it just kept going.


#234

The list you are quoting sounds plausible. I would also throw in that England never got rid of their robber barons throughout the 1900’s and it is evident all over the place, including their architecture and products in their stores. They have never ending articles in their papers saying their standard of living is higher than the US which isn’t possible. When the price of bread goes up our standard of living goes down unless we get a raise. They pay 30% more, get 30% less and make far lower wages pretty much across the board. .The standard of living articles are propaganda. I saw so many homeless people there and all were asleep on the side of city streets with the rain hitting their faces. None had tents. It’s easier to be poor in America if nothing else because for what little money you do get, goes 60% further than money in the UK. I can’t wait to go back to the UK in a few months but several things are shocking that shouldn’t be.


#235

Well, I agree about the increased homelessness and wage squeeze etc, that’s mainly the product of a decade of Tory Austerity, cunning neo-liberal bullshit to dismantle the welfare state (I’m sure you know the script) that was doing okay until they were elected. Yet that same phenomena is happening all across the industrialised West, including the US, though less so in the European social democracies like Norway and Denmark. Yet at least the homeless get something they won’t get in the US, free health care, which can be quite vital, at least for the present until the post-brexit neo lib deregulation fest begins and the NHS gets privatised and ripped apart. But all that apart, that’s a separate issue, I thought your point was specifically about corruption as is the ‘plausible’ table I linked to?

This table is researched by an independent, pan-national body, but if you think it’s just ‘propaganda’ well there’s nothing I can say to that except repeat the sarcasm at the end of my last post.

Also, I’ve lived in the UK for over 40 years and never once seen a single article anywhere stating that the UK had a higher standard of living than the US or even anyone so would be curious where you saw all these articles, more usually, British people being self-depreciating, you will find tons of articles saying it’s worse than just about everywhere else in the world. There are lying articles espousing the benefit of neo-lib policies in the right wing (inc Murdoch) press, that may talk up and distort standard of living info, as happens in the US and every country, to sell the bullshit to the masses, but never seen one comparing themselves to the US or other places.


#236

Hi Hobgoblin,

The homeless get free health care in the US. That they don’t is UK propaganda. I thought the US was bad at propaganda but we have little on the UK where it is total. The poor make under the limit where you have to pay. Also, health care is denied to nobody in the US. Hospitals have to accept us all and treat us all equally. I don’t remember what the limit is where you have to make a certain amount then you have to pay, I think it’s 30k a year. My brother and sister get free health care because they make under that amount.
There’s a large class in the US called home owners, that doesn’t exist in the UK because home prices are so exorbitant that few of the middle or lower class own homes there. You have a tiny home owner class.
In the US the health care costs hit us home owners the worst because we can get a bill and they can put leans on our house for it
We are able to declare bankruptcy and walk away from debt every 3 years. But, we can only keep 10k worth of our house if we declare bankruptcy. The most common cause of bankruptcy is health care bills. It affects the middle class the most because the rich can afford Obama care, and the poor get it for free. The employed get it through their employer and the unemployed that made more than something like 30k in the year they lost their job, struggle to pay it and so if anything happens to them they can lose their house if they own one - after years of not paying the health care bill, of course. Of the middle class, any one who doesn’t own a home can declare bankruptcy and lose nothing. Sure their credit reflects the bankruptcy for 7 years but all credit is good for is more credit. Apartments often do credit checks but not all of them and people can establish good credit after a bankruptcy very quickly by buying something like a car and paying it on time.
I should mention that this is one of my biggest complaints about the UK - don’t get me wrong I actually do love the place. There aren’t really options for the lower classes to succeed. It’s like the grocery stores, so little choice includes in a large part, price choice. It’s also that the products often have 30% less to them and cost 30% more making it 60% off the top of doing worse than the US and that’s not including the lower wages and higher housing/apartment costs.
There isn’t a buffer all the way down where people even have the option of buying cheaper and living cheaper. That is the most terrifying thing to me. The lack of options if something went wrong or if someone’s budget is tight. They really won’t get toothpaste or shampoo instead of have the 99 cent shampoo option as well as the $8.00 option. (I buy the .99 cent shampoo on a regular basis and I have a niece who buys the $8.00 designer shampoo only and she makes less than me. My sister in law only buys the dandruff stuff she likes that about $4.00.) See the option choices? They don’t exist across the board right down to housing like it does in the US. I have a theory and it has to do with lock out of products due to price gauging. If they can’t seriously gauge the price, I don’t think the products get in there. Toothpaste that’s 1/3 shorter than the US tube of tooth paste, and paper towels that look like half are missing are standard products in the UK and for those of you in the US, they cost 30% more than the US with 30% of the product missing. Shampoo bottles that aren’t round but have the front and back cut off so they are flat across the front and back thus removing 30% of the product are also normal and of course costing 30% more. I kept seeing this with products. And then the very tiny choice of products at all. They’ve locked out products that we take for granted in the US which are good, inexpensive and give you plenty pretty much across the board. And then they print articles assuring the people in the UK that they have a higher standard of living. Not possible and at very generously 60% lower than the US. Most likely 85% lower because of the cost of housing and low wages. Don’t even get me started on the fact that where they live is on average 1/3 the size of any dwelling Americans live in and they’re getting smaller in the UK while the US, Canada and Australia is growing. This means your entire living experience is incredibly muted and crammed.


#237

Hobgoblin, I saw at least 3 articles stating that the UK had a higher standard of living in the US. It was propaganda.
The problem with the US is oligarchs who already own the UK are trying to do that here. We have massive issues here, but not like Europe has. I don’t excuse our issue though, right down to homelessness, Main Stream Media propaganda, the lack of Universal Health care - I could lose my house if I lost my job and had a medical emergency that costs a lot. I’ve only heard about Norway and Denmark. I haven’t been there so have no right to comment.
One thing I’ve learned in spades is if you haven’t gone you don’t know what’s going on there. I would say France has it much worse than the UK. But I have not lived there, only visited so don’t actually know. I feared for my life in France because I accidentally got caught up in a protest and had to jump barricades to get out of it and the police were armed with machine guns and I’ve never feared for my life in the US with our cops armed - usually with pistols in their holsters. I’m sure it was a one off and the same could happen to the US in some situations. Of course I was in the WTO protest in Seattle for weeks in the early 2000’s that way got out of hand, and never had that fear. I know blacks fear all the time from our cops under any circumstances including calling them themselves.