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In Display of 'Actual Sociopathy,' Trump Reportedly Asked CIA Why Drone Didn't Also Kill Target's Family


#184

The bill expanded Medicaid in all 50 states, massively funded rural community healthcare clinics, and provided publicly funded premium supports for private insurance purchasers. One was wrecked by the Supreme Court, the other by a Republican House. So take your clucking uniformed sanctimony and shove it back up your own.

Oh, and before you holler at me again, you are speaking to a person who has a pre-existing condition (Type 1 diabetes) and knows well what it means to go without insurance. I keep my mouth shut on that issue whenever you throw your health needs at me because I like to focus on legislation and policy with respect to healthcare, which I know a lot about as a matter of profession. I have watched moronic, uniformed arguments drive conversations over one aspect of a bill without even considering how clucking stupid they are. If Obama wanted the so-called Heritage Plan and to sell you out, he wouldn’t have forced insurers to accept 5-1 patient ratio bands. Zero insurers wanted that and the Trump administration is actively seeking workarounds for it. But let’s ignore that because it doesn’t fit into our neat sellout narrative! Cluck!


#185

Well take it shove it once again.

One thing you can always be counted on, is ignoring the reality that the tightrope that was walked by Obama was one that kept private insurance companies in control of healthcare.

I have never denied the good parts of ACA so spare me.

The fact that you know what it is like to go without insurance just makes your positioning on this matter worse.

That you apologize for the ACA so wholeheartedly, that by design still left millions without access to healthcare from conception.

You apologize for this sick fucking system, that leaves people paying premiums to service the event that they have a life threatening sudden illness, yet has deductibles so high that they avoid procedures they otherwise might benefit from.

So again, take it and shove it. You have the nerve to deem my argument once again mythology, when I’ve made arguments completely in line with analysis about how insurance companies, especially Wellpoint essentially wrote most of the ACA.

Congratulations, you have healthcare under the ACA.

I’m wondering how I will survive.

Go cluck yourself.


#186

Thank you.

Mean-while, the policy wonks among us, diabetic or otherwise, discount the actual hell millions were resigned to intentionally by policy.

And I’m to be shamed for having the audacity to not wonk myself into some appreciation of the political accomplishment of Obama.


#187

You too.:blush:


#188

I don’t apologize for anything, just respond to jerks who can’t read beyond their own nose. There are thousands of public servants engaged in actually finding ways to provide coverage under the ACA, whose positions are financed via the law, but it’s all worthless to you because of your situation. More to the point, it was the Supreme Court that messed up Medicaid expansion, not Obama. Millions more people would have coverage if not for that. It was the Republican House that wrecked rural community healthcare financing, not Obama either.

Whatever. Your situation is bad, there are sellouts everywhere, so yell at me because I know the legislative history of the bill, not just popular progressive talking point BS.


#189

I don’t apologize for anything, just respond to jerks who can’t read beyond their own nose.

So I’m a jerk that can’t read beyond my own nose? For the record, jerk, I have a beak and I’m not even close to being finished pecking.

There are thousands of public servants engaged in actually finding ways to provide coverage under the ACA, whose positions are financed via the law, but it’s all worthless to you because of your situation. More to the point, it was the Supreme Court that messed up Medicaid expansion, not Obama.

This is all beside the point that I argue, I haven’t asserted otherwise even despite my dire situation. The point that I have made criticizing ACA repeatedly is that BY DESIGN it was destined to leave millions uninsured. The estimate made at the time ACA was written was over 20 million. As of 2016 before Trump got his hands on it, 27 million US citizens were uninsured.

To you, and your ilk i.e., Clinton, Lieberman, Obama, Schumer, and the rest of the corporate sellouts among us…calling out the reality that ACA was written mostly by Wellpoint, and that Corporate Democrats fought for a bill that would leave the Big Insurers in control is “talking point BS”.

If anyone knows talking point BS, it is you.

Cluck.

Enjoy, it’s a nice read written by another “jerk who can’t read beyond their own nose”.


#190

Let’s ignore the coverage expansion. It’s the loss that counts, I see. Oh, and let’s ignore what happened to Medicaid and rural community health clinic funding. Oh, and what number without healthcare were non-citizens (hint: approximately 20%)? And what’s happening to coverage in states that are restricting access to Medicaid (not Obama’s fault)? I’m sure a public option would have resolved what is happening in states, given Supreme Court precedent. Course, that would’ve been Obama’s fault too.

You are having a tough go, I’m sorry for that. But if you can’t respect me and want to act like a jerk, I can say cluck too. I am going to contribute to conversations how I see fit when I actually know what I’m clucking talking about, even if it doesn’t fit your favorite narrative. Cluck!


#191

One thing you can never refute, except to insult by deeming such argument a “myth” is the degree to which ACA was written by the healthcare industry, and how ACA left in place, by design, control of the healthcare system by Healthcare Inc Monopoly.

I have never once denied whatever good outcomes from ACA that you cite. Not once.

Keep trying to beat me over the head with that dishonest argument.

As for acting like a jerk, you are the one who threw the first punch here calling my argument a myth.

The reporter must be another one of those jerks who can’t read beyond their own nose.

Here…another such clueless jerk…

I’m all about mythology.

Cluck.

Oh what the heck…I mean, I just can’t see beyond my nose, and am just such a jerk when reacting to someone calling all of this evidence that supports my arguments, mythology.

Excerpt from next posted article.

Hospital industry lobbyists, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of alienating the White House, say they negotiated their $155 billion in concessions with Mr. Baucus and the administration in tandem. House staff members were present, including for at least one White House meeting, but their role was peripheral, the lobbyists said.

Several hospital lobbyists involved in the White House deals said it was understood as a condition of their support that the final legislation would not include a government-run health plan paying Medicare rates — generally 80 percent of private sector rates — or controlled by the secretary of health and human services.

“We have an agreement with the White House that I’m very confident will be seen all the way through conference,” one of the industry lobbyists, Chip Kahn, director of the Federation of American Hospitals, told a Capitol Hill newsletter.

I think I’ll pause for a rest, so I can contemplate how grateful I should be for the ACA.


#192

It is a myth, sorry. Key in that hyperbolic Huffingtonpost “report” is the Senate Finance Committee, run by Max Baucus, who was always against a public option and never for it. This wasn’t secret, the inflated “reporting” in that article not withstanding. A whip count in August of 2009 registered 43 votes for a public option, not enough. If Obama wanted a bill passed, he wasn’t going to get one done by crossing Baucus, or Kent Conrad for that matter, who I feel was more responsible for the key problem with the law as it is—weak subsidies for private insurance purchases. More to the point, a public option did get through the House well after the negotiations cited in the Times 2009 article on healthcare negotiations.

And the bill wasn’t written by the health industry either. It was separate pieces of legislation developed in multiple committees in the House and Senate (Bernie was on a key committee). That’s why the 5-1 patient ratio band that insurers were adamantly against was in it. That’s why a public option came out of the House. That’s why the Sanders supported amendment on rural community health centers was in it, with a huge dose of public financing to boot. If that’s your case, FDR was a sellout on Social Security since he negotiated a portion of the bill directly with the insurance industry and the American Farm Bureau.

The biggest problem for the public option was conservative Democrats in the Senate. As opposed to the “report” you cite, they were what killed the public option. Obama could say what he wanted to, but if he wanted a bill passed, he needed their votes. Even then, it was ultimately Senator Lieberman (complete asshole) that killed all proposals, including the Medicare buy-in that Reid thought he had a deal on.

In fact, I think Obama’s role gets too much attention with respect to the ACA. One of his faults is that he was too deferential to Baucus, who let the bill get hung up in committee while being strung along by Chuck Grassely. The administration remained outside congressional negotiations, “aloof” as was reported, and the bill nearly died without it stepping in to resolve disputes late in the game. I suspect that Times article was partly a reaction on the part of the administration to criticisms from certain quarters of Congress and health advocacy organizations in this regard.


#193

Nope, I’m not. I’m recalling the few voices saying anything about Obama’s drone program when he was doing it and yet the extreme loud, vocal, and venomous outrage when Trump asks about doing the same thing.

I’m also thinking about all my socially liberal friends on facebook who go after Trump non-stop on stuff like this and yet continually post wistfully sad memes about missing Obama.


#194

There you go, pick your rationale. I mean they are all there. A sampling of sorts.

The fact that Corporate State Democrats made damn sure a public option wasn’t going to be in the works is completely consistent with Obama’s actions even IF the specific assertion or “hyperbole” isn’t factual.

The fact of the matter is, Obama did NOT publicly make a case for the public option during the time that it would have mattered.

I mean, wonk me to death already in support of this hideous healthcare system called the ACA.

And your contention that the bill was not in large part written by the Big Insurers is propaganda. The fact that it came out of separate Committees proves what point exactly?

Enjoy some more mythology by jerks who can’t read beyond their own nose.

https://sunlightfoundation.com/2010/02/12/the-legacy-of-billy-tauzin-the-white-house-phrma-deal/


#195

Just because people negotiate over a bill doesn’t mean it was authored by Big Pharma. My gawd. Just look at how many amendments were accepted into the bill. Eight major House committees drafted portions of the House legislation, while in the Senate, three major committees wrote the legislation, including one Bernie sat on. Would you like me to name more provisions the health industry did not like? Because there are a bunch, and they wouldn’t be in any bill they authored. Ignore that fact though, it’s inconvenient. As I say, I guess Roosevelt sold out over Social Security and Johnson sold out over Medicare. As I note above, Roosevelt specifically negotiated with American Farm Bureau and insurers. Social Security was sellout trash authored by corporate goons! It did exclude a large swath of workers, after all.

Any compromise legislation is going to have sucky things about it and be imperfect. I was disappointed by elements of the ACA too, but not all provisions I liked had congressional support. But I also don’t live in progressive fantasy land where we act like standard legislative behavior is the biggest fucking sellout deal in the world. I also don’t look at a portion of a huge piece of legislation, ignore the legislative record, subsequent legal and political events, and pretend it’s all a corporate sellout and lay it at the feet of people who constructed the largest expansion of public healthcare financing since the 1960s. No legislation is perfect, and that’s the case when it faces a substantial sustained opposition. After all, the tea party groups organized around the country to attend congressional member meetings were about stopping the public option because it was viewed as a government takeover of healthcare.


#196

Well my gawd!!!

You went so far as to lend legitimacy to the Koch Bros Tea Party staged raids on town halls. Oh my gawd.

Corporate State Democrats did as well, and they were eager as well to add credence to the propaganda that in the end, they had to consider such resistance politically.

Oh poppycock. They knew dam well that it was all just a sham, they knew the funding behind those front groups, and they knew ultimately how it would help them beat the public option.

Did Obama rush out to correct the record? Well of course not, as the people working to negotiate the deal, the majority of which were representatives of corporate interests had already determined that the public option was going to be dead anyway, so all the better

Please please point to me where Obama fought for the public option publicly. Go ahead, search.

I’m certain as Lieberman (PNAA) and other Corporate State Democrats move to privatize further Medicare, and Social Security, you will be right there with them defending all of it.

But of course it is only Ryan that wants to go in that direction right?

Project for the New American Austerity of course doesn’t matter one bit. Not one bit.

Wonk wonk wonk wonk.


#197

Chicken logic: Social Security is a sellout program and so is Medicare. To this day, certain workers are excluded from both programs either by age or industry. Corporations wrote those bills because administrations negotiated with industry principles, which never ever happens ever in the glorious land of crazy chickens. Cluck!

I’m just glad you weren’t around to see Roosevelt sell people out. Goddamn corporate whore let industry have input into the Fair Labor Standards Act too! Sellout! It only covered 700,000 workers initially. What trash! I ain’t gonna defend that clucking corporate whore.


#198

Find one instance where I have made that argument about Social Security or Medicare. I’ve made arguments to the contrary in fact, in support of those programs.

You piling on of arguments and “logic” that I haven’t made is dishonest to the core.

I think you have shown your true colors.

You will predictably defend the indefensible, the corporate takeover of governance in this country.

Wonk away. I’m crazy? I’m happy to be labeled that according to your worldview.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2013/10/01/obamacare-enriches-only-the-health-insurance-giants-and-their-shareholders/#6f83a2eb3077

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2014/10/29/obamacare-brings-wellpoint-even-bigger-than-expected-profits/#6066bab077b3

More voices from “extreme leftists”…

I’m sure that will make your day! Enjoy, you crazy wonker.


#199

No, I’m throwing your logic back in your face. You see, every clucking piece of what we’d call progressive legislation you can apply your logic to. Administrations, congressional committees, negotiated with industries. That means we got sold out! That’s why Social Security didn’t include a portion of the work force initially, the Fair Labor Standards Act only applied to 700,000 workers. Roosevelt was a corporate sellout that let industry write those bills and didn’t do what we wanted totally and completely. Corporate legislation.

Yeah, yeah, I know that certain committee chairs in Congress weren’t excited about expanding Social Security in certain industries, but I’ll ignore that. I’ll also ignore exemptions negotiated in the Fair Labor Standards Act too. Roosevelt wrote corporate whore legislation. Easier to just say that.


#200

Look, I can’t help the fact that you are fucking blind to what is happening in this country.

Crisis? What crisis?


#201

I ain’t blind to anything.


#202

To you, it’s just a natural state of political affairs.

DLC? No consequence whatsoever! And for goodness sake, one can never assume any political motive of corporate subservience over the good of the masses. No sireeeee!!! Nope, not at all.

Clinton was just doing her thing at 29,000 dollars a day for two years making the rounds of corporations doing speeches.

I mean, ascribe a motive of corporate subservience to this? My goodness no!

You’re not blind, I was being too generous.

Enjoy the last word.


#203

To buttress your point about the sociopath Obama…

He’s a real peach, that Obama.