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In Major Win Over 'Corporate Bullying,' Seattle Approves Tax on Amazon to Combat Homelessness


#61

A dollar is worth a dollar. Are you implying there wasn’t inflation prior to the Fed? The things the Fed does have been delegated to it BY Congress and are under the supervision of Congress.


#62

So, under this overly simplified logic that you provided, a business that starts small and grows to be (arbitrarily) large now becomes a detriment to society? What do you tell a business owner to do? Halt production if too many people like what he’s selling?

This is a major myth. First, land has no value. People can extract value from land. But really nothing has value until we find ways to use it productively. And this is a subtle but important point, because there is very little correlation between countries with vast natural resources and GDP. There are natural resource-rich countries that are wealthy (e.g. the U.S.) and ones that are very poor (e.g. Venezuela and Russia). It’s how we use those resources that matters. Venezuela is socialist. Russia was previously communist and currently a corrupt, mixed economy. Their economic systems resulted in a squandering of the opportunities that those resources could provide.

No, capitalism, or more specifically, free markets, has slashed the global abject poverty rate in half over the last half century. Today, 2018, is the best the world has ever seen in terms of global health, global wealth, reduction in poverty, etc. And it is because countries have finally opened their borders to global trade and have begun (many times reluctantly) to institute market economies after previously being socialist/communist.

“Capitalism” can be incorrectly used in conversation to define certain economies, and many times it is incorrectly used to define an economy exhibiting crony capitalism, or corporatism. So I prefer to use the term “free markets” because this refers to an economy exhibiting voluntary trade and private property rights. Corporatism is the economy that existing in fascist countries in which the government heavy-handedly decided which businesses/industries were allowed to exist. It was actually only quasi-different from pure socialism, in which the government would control the entire means of production.

I find it interesting that you note that the Fed has helped create the inflation to which you refer. I am certainly against inflation. It’s horrendous for an economy, impoverishes a country, and is the most detrimental for the poor. Yet I’ve seen many people on this website defending the government’s use of inflation as a viable tool to help an economy grow. Just look at wonderful socialist Venezuela for an example of what inflation can do to an economy.


#63

jim –

Probably the 1913 dollar is worth more like 9 cents now …

Consider that every $1.00 anyone had pre-“W” Bush is now worth about 50 cents.

The FED has enslaved US citizens to . . . as predicted/.

Wherever Trump goes, so goes bankruptcy.

Recent push for GOP tax-scam brings us one step closer to it.

Meanwhile, Puerto Rico is another example of that enslavement to debt
and then the rug being pulled out with austerity applied to citizens rather
than to corrupt government who remain unaccountable.

Congress is Constitutionally barred from passing that responsibility on to anyone else.

Supervision – applesauce –


#64

tv –

Amazon is not a “large business” … it’s a monopoly which should be
shut down and split up under anti-trust laws.

Land has NO value? I’m sure the Elites-Patriarchs who were “endowed” with
land grants by Our Founders felt insulted when they got free land. (Oh, my!)

And, I’ll take this opportunity to remind you that Our Founders gave the “right
to vote” ONLY to males of property. (Oh, my! again)

US has exploited its natural resources – polluting the land and destroying Nature.
Burning of fossil fuels should have stopped 60 years ago.
And our natural resources should have been NATURALIZED 100 years ago and
private interests barred from controlling them for their own profit.

More correct to admit that US wealth has been increased by STEALING land and
Natural Resources, including by their “illegal wars of aggression” in the Middle East
which has given them control of OIL in the Middle East.

There is no difference between the US and Russia when it comes to “pounding out
their natural resources.” Elites want Russia to be reduced once again to a “third world
nation” – just as they are following their dream of creating a “third world America.”

There is no nation more corrupt than the US today – it continues on in its warmongering
and weapons dealing.

Many of our European nations are “socialist” democracies and thrive – all with National
Health Care for their citizens. And many other benefits such as free higher education, etal.
US remains alone in not providing National Health Care for its citizens.

Venezuela is oil rich – which is why we saw the deep interest of the CIA …

Relations with Barack Obama and his predecessors were so cool, some in Venezuela believe his death on Tuesday at 58 is the CIA’s work.

To the tens of thousands chanting his name in Caracas’ Bolivar Square yesterday, Hugo Chavez was a hero who gave them schools, hospitals and dignity.

To the US, he was the "the enemy at the doorstep."

There is no such thing as “free markets” –
There is only “Welfare for the Rich, and Free Enterprise for the Poor.”

When was the last time you heard any US leader mention our “homeless” or
our US children living in poverty? Or our employment levels at only slightly over 50%?

Royals morphed into Elites/Corporations which has now given us “Oligarchy” and
Corporate-fascism if you’re interested in alternative names.
And the “Palace Intrigue” continues on.

Whatever negative things happen anywhere in the world – whether Mexico or Venezuela,
Egypt, Yemen, Syria, Lybia … you will find the US there influencing and corrupting their
governments – and introducing violence.
But certainly avoiding in every step any movement towards democracy.


#65

First, Amazon is not a monopoly. They’re a large corporation, with thousands of large and small competitors. They drive out inefficient local companies all the time. That’s a good thing.

But let’s leave Amazon aside, since you’re so fixated on one specific company. Let’s debate the concept. At what point does a small, successful company become evil due to its own success? At what size or market share?

Nothing has value until human ingenuity can turn it into something of use. Land has no value until you grow or build something on it.

On the rest of your quote, I have no idea what you are talking about. No one was bestowed with land. We were just given the right to own land.

What is your ideal way in which a country should use natural resources? You can’t have “zero” pollution.

And I’m presuming you meant “nationalized,” not naturalized. You can look at every single country that has nationalized natural resources, and what you’ll find is abject poverty and corruption. China, USSR, North Korea, Venezuela, the list goes on and on.

This is an absolutely ridiculous claim.

Socialists never cease to blame the US for the endless list of socialist country failures.


#66

Applesauce –

There isn’t any community, town, or state which isn’t suffering from the lack
of taxes being assessed on our corporations and Elites by our government …

which is now owned by Elites/corporations.

Evidently you’ve also missed that news – since days of Nixon they’ve been putting
the “Fox in charge of the hen house.” And Trump has followed with a long list of
corporations now controlling all of government – and all of our agencies.


#67

That’s a nice open-ended statement that is deliberately designed to be impossible to respond to directly, since you’re implying that no matter what, taxes should always be higher. So I’ll just ask you directly, what do you think our corporate rate should be?


#68

Corporations should pay for the damage they’ve done to the environment,
all of Nature and the planet –

We’ll take it on the installment plan …
I’d suggest confiscation of all their financial holdings, for a start.

Then all of their assets.

And then hold “Truth Hearings” to decide how many of them go to jail.


#69

Put everyone out of a job and crash the economy. Very well thought out!


#70

tv –

I actually replied to this and it flew off somewhere –

Amazon is of course a monopoly and you can find that definition of it
in many articles –

Your debate that land has no value is nonsense, of course.

Elites were “endowed” with land – and tremendous influence and control over our “people’s” government,
the nation’s wealth and natural resources.
Our Founders PRIVATIZED the wealth of the nation for the benefit of Elites/wealthy.

You have no concept of NATIONALIZING natural resources?
Wow – nothing gets the CIA more upset than democratic nations acknowledging a Commonwealth.
And they quickly head out to eliminate the threat posed by the leader nationalizing natural resources.
Korea is an excellent example of the destructiveness of the US in trying to control other nations and in
its aggressive assaults on other nations. You missed Vietnam where US killed … 4 million or 40 million?
Hard to say.

Hard not to blame the US when it’s their planes which deliver the bombs – beginning with Hiroshima and Nagasaki.


#71

And after all corporations are summarily destroyed and every corporate executive is arbitrarily fined, jailed or executed, what is your replacement solution for all of these companies?

This solution is sounding delightfully communist indeed.


#72

Land has no value on its own. Nothing has value on its own. Something only has value so much as our human minds are able to discover how to use it as a means toward an end. A big plot of land is just a big plot of land until I start farming on it, or construct a building, or do something that gives it inherent value.


#73

tv –

We would raise new corporations as we needed them - - which was the original
system – and they would be folded again after the project was completed.

No – it’s democratic socialism.

Quite a difference from the corporate-fascism you’re supporting.


#74

So people who invest in land and hold it later find out it has no value?

In your eagerness to support Elites and corporations you’re running off a cliff.


#75

No. Literally the opposite. Until people do something with the land, the land itself has no value. If you gave me an amazing piece of technology from the future, it might be price to a future society, but to me it could be worthless because I wouldn’t know how to use it.


#76

OK – it’s now an embarrassment to reply to you.


#77

This is literally the political structure of the Soviet Union, Vietnam, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, Cambodia, China, etc.

That’s not a very good path to be following. There are approximately 100 million dead bodies littering that long road.


#78

Capitalism is an evil – and suicidal –
IF we have any time left, we should move to democratic socialism.


#79

So how would you describe the results of the economic system in the countries I listed? Are those not evil?


#80

tv –

Just lost another reply to you —

No – many democratic nations have rejected pure evil of Capitalism and
behave in socially responsible ways.

And, if I recall correctly, Russia now runs a partially capitalistic economy?
Vietnam, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, Cambodia – are all nations under
attack by US because of their rejection of capitalism. How could you miss that?

It was US/CIA bright shining lie in Vietnam – a nation seeking to end colonialism there.
Which US resisted overwhelmingly from the days of Ike – and likely before.
Fletcher Prouty tells the story that at the end of WWII, US was trying to move troops into
that area – troops refused to go. They had everything laid out – ships/supplies – all
ready to go. Soldiers said NO.
North Korea – US/Henry Kissinger 38th parallel splitting the country.
Venezuela – another CIA assassination there against democratically elected leader.
Cuba – US has resisted their efforts to decide for themselves on what their economy would
be – and attacked the country over decades. What did US do in Cambodia and Laos?
Many stories to be told on our outlaw government.

US has not followed “a very good path” from the very first days of the invaders here.

Genocide, violence, murder – that’s the path they know and understand and follow.

Too many of the dead bodies you can dig up will have a “Made in the USA” label on them.