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In the United States, Real Flying Cars a Thing But 'Very Serious People' Still Say Medicare for All 'Too Expensive'


#1

In the United States, Real Flying Cars a Thing But 'Very Serious People' Still Say Medicare for All 'Too Expensive'

Jon Queally, staff writer

While billionaire Google co-founder Larry Page has a team of amazing engineers out in the Nevada cruising around in real life flying cars, back in the real world of the United States it seems that having a healthcare system that actually covers everybody, impoverishes nobody, and treats everyone as equally valuable and worthy of quality care continues to be something that too many powerful people want to remain an unattainable fantasy.

So there's a disconnect.


#2

Pelosi and her DNC conspirators have already “evaluated Medicare for all” and unequivocally declared war on it.

In addition to making “the poor staying poor” the US insurance and medical complex to which the DNC is beholden keeps making more working class Murkins poor.


#3

Ah, but you see, the people of the U.S. are “brain-washed” and therefore absolved from the basic human responsibilities of recognizing reality and acting in their own collective interests. All good in the Land of Exceptionalism.


#4

Two questions I’ve asked before but never get a satisfactory answer:

Why aren’t major corporations - who are burdened with major liabilities for health care payments subsidizing current and former employees - in favor of single payer? Or any employer for that matter who pays part or most of the premiums for their workers. Can you imagine the effect on bottoms lines if these costs were subtracted from the books?

Precisely, what does a health insurance company do that the government can’t, and for much much cheaper?


#5

Two minutes ago NPR reported on a study conducted by Seattle’s Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center that confirms that while treating colon cancer in the US averages $12,000 per year compared to costing $6,000 per year in Canada, recovery and survival results are nearly equal.

Guess that is why the number of US Border Patrol resources in every little border town along the Canadian border increased more than tenfold during Obama’s eight year stint. Gotta keep single payer from invading from the north.


#6

Not understanding why people think Medicare is so great. What I have is not the same Medicare that my parents and grandparent had. The deductibles are outrageous and they are all for profit. Big difference between Medicare for all and Single payer for all! People obviously don’t understand the difference.


#7

I can see a few reasons the Corporations would not be in favor.

Medicare for all would give the worker too much independence and an added ability to quit a job they are not happy with so as to look for another. It also discourages people working independently raher then for a Corporation. Added to that the Corporations in the US will use their health care plans when negotiting salary raises. They will tell their employee “Look the costs for your health care are rising and we consider that part of your slaray increase”. When a Corporation “costs out” Health Care expenses as opposed to Wages in their bottom line , Health Care costs are generally seen as cheaper.

I can also see a Wal-mart being opposed as this can be a way they crush competition from small ma and pa shops in local areas. Via economies of scale Wal-mart will use its leverage to ensure that they can provide health care benefits to an employee far cheaper then the smaller businesses. Even as bad as these benefits are many workers NEED Health Care and will make a job choice based upon who provides some amount of it.

Ultimately they are opposed to Health Care very much for the same reasons they do not want employees working together so as to address concerns they might have with an employer in the workplace. It about CONTROL. They want to own you body and soul.

Now as far as the Government concerned , Republican and Democrat both , when one looks at Clintons changes to how Welfare worked wherein people must WORK for Welfare and other such memes advanced by the same where there also a Politician pushing out a bill indicating that if a person receives benefits from the Government they should work for them , the philosophy remains the same. Medicare for all or Universal Healthcare which is provided to all Citizens whether they working or not , does not fit their model. The thought of some poor person getting “Medical care for free” bothers them to no end and we see that thought process at work here on these boards with those few Libertarians that post their nonsense.


#8

I think it’s called “being co-opted”. I’m looking into my district’s house primary and most of the 8 or so candidates are now saying they support “Universal Health Care”. That’s a third name. Massachusetts and now Vermont have laws with an individual mandate, and when Romney campaigned for pres, he said he provided all MA residents with health care. BS–he passed a law that required them to provide it for themselves!

So when Congress finally gets around to a robust debate, Single-payer will first have been transformed into Medicare-for-all and then into Romney’s version of “Universal Health Care” which is essentially Obamacare, since ACA already has an individual mandate. So the politicians hope we will forget that what we get is nothing like what we ordered, but they can still say they support “Universal Health Care”.

Kind of like with a $15 minimum wage. A few Democrats saw the support that was gathering and decided they would support the “$15 eventually” version, that has a $1 increase now and incremental annual increases until we hit $15. And the voters don’t even blink!


#9

Any time a politician says single-payer is too expensive (this is mostly Democrats–the Republicans simply ignore the issue,) be sure to ask them:

How can it be too expensive if it’s less expensive than what we already have?


#10

“The proof is in our investment. The US spends 18% of its annual gross domestic product (GDP) on health. In 2015, this amounted to $3.2 trillion, a figure equal to the Germany’s economy. The country next in line in health spending, Sweden, invests 12% of its annual GDP — about two-thirds of what we spend. For additional comparison, most other peer countries spend about 9% of their GDP on health. Clearly, the US values well-being and is willing to pay for it.” Except our health is declining and so is our life expectancy.


#11

Wal mart isn’t going to be troubled at all, they already outsource their healthcare expenses. They by- pass any responsibility for their workers health because they actually profit by it. You don’t seem to realize the full measure of Medicare for All, it defunds other public health services and corporations don’t have to pay matching contributions. It is a gift to healthcare corporations and business. It is designed by corporations for corporations and throws consumers a bone. Medicare for all is a good idea or a single payer plan is a good idea and possible, but not by the methods or plan on the table.


#12

I understand fully “medicare for all” I am speaking to why the US Corporate model would be opposed to such, which your rebuttal seemed to miss. Again it not as much about the bottom line as it about CONTROL over the workplace and whether Walmart outsources their health care does not change this.

I will speak to how Wal Mart functions here in Canada as compared to how a Wal Mart functions in the USA.

If Wal Mart has an employee that quits his job here in Canada, that person STILL has health care. If that person goes to work for a ma and pa shop that can not afford health care for employees on the Private model , his/her health care does not suffer. If that person in Canada develops an illness he or she does not have to fear higher premiums if they switch jobs because they are always covered by the system whether working or not. I had a friend in the USA that worked years for a firm at a job she hated but when I asked her why not quit, she indicated she could not afford the Health Care under Cobra. She had existing health care issues which were covered under even that meager compnay plan but my uderstanding was if this coverage lapsed attempting to renew it on her own would see her premiums skyrocket.

That “outsourced” health care Wal mart provides in the USA is still a trap. Wal Mart USA provides as little as they can get away with while at the same time making it hard for an employee to give that little up becuse the alternative is nothing at all. This is how they can force the employee to work off hours for no pay. The worker is in fear of losing their job , not just for those wages , but for that meager health care benefit.

YES it would be cheaper to the Corporate bottom line were the US to adopt a single payer model , but these guys do not want to give up the control they exert over their worker.


#13

Well Wal Mart is the largest employer in the world or was. In the U.S. most of the workers either have medicaid or qualify for it so if their expenses are significant they still have health care. Wal Mart takes out life insurance policies on its employees that pay Wal Mart not the family in the event of death. They use that money to fund their health plan contributions. It is all legal but in no way compares to some of the things healthcare corporation do which is what happens after the issue of access is decided.

I agree the cost of Cobra is usually at such a high rate that few can afford it. Still, there are provisions for care if you don’t mind being indigent. In the U.S. the cost of health care will eventually take most or all of your resources. Medicare can take your resources to pay for your care as well. (Unless you know how to protect your assets)

I agree this affects people differently, I’ve dealt with all of the above myself.


#14

Just to add, there another difference between the Workplace in Canada and the USA which helps explain why The Corporations in Canada tend to favor Single payer health care over the US model.

This is because Unions are still stronger in Canada. A Unionized workplace will always negotiate a better health care plan for its workers. In the USA I have seen studies showing the cost to the Employer per employee for health care benefits is as much as three times higher for a Unionized workplace then a non unionized workplace.

The US Government and the Supreme Court actively work to crush Unions .


#15

Medicare is not free. They have yet to fully define the funding involved, they conveniently leave that out, in CA they projected an over all 8% decrease and cap and trade for states that would not have revenue to cover expenses.


#16

No one has claimed it “free”. Other Countries can fund health care for all so I do not know why it so difficult for the uSA to come up with a model.


#17

Most Americans support an improved Medicare For All, which would be single payer. But voters need to wake up and realize that, unless they start supporting and voting for corporate-free candidates who advocate Medicare For All (the real version - not the fake ones like Medicare For Some), we won’t be able to achieve this landmark legislation that exists in every other developed nation.

You have to stop voting for candidates who are bought by insurance and big pharma, and you have to start voting for candidates who aren’t. There’s not a whole lot more to this than stepping outside the psychological comfort zone of these corporate Democrats who have absolutely zilch intention of passing it - they’re paid to block it and to b.s. people like Madam Pelosi who “pretends” it’s a consideration. It’s not. She even wrote legislation into the ACA to make it more difficult to pass. Who needs this person in Congress? I sure don’t. She’s bought by insurance and pharma.

We do need more people to vote -but it’s not only about getting more people voting, but who they vote for - the People or the corporations - and that includes especially people who are already voting.

Many Democratic Party voters bemoan these elections where it’s a “battle between the lesser of two evils,” - and how too many people are abandoning their responsibility to actually vote at all. But we are seeing elections where they really do have solid choices - and sometimes there isn’t even a Republican in the race - and all they do is throw away their vote to the corporate Democrat - when they actually could elect a genuine representative of The People not corporations - without any threat from a big bad boogeyman of the GOP. So … the only reason they can possibly be choosing these corporate Dems over a real People’s candidate is plain old brainwashing masquerading as “savoir faire.” It’s not savoir faire. It’s conditioning and glib MadisonAve-like b.s.

Over 80 percent of Democratic Party voters support Medicare For All. But now they have to start voting for it, too. Even if it means supporting independents or Greens in elections where the choice boils down to another Pelosi-like corporatist or a corporate free single payer advocate who is pledged not to ever take their dirty money. Hey, there are even 2 corporate free Republicans supporting Medicare For All in southern districts where the Democrats aren’t. You have vote for them instead - these are open primaries. And, in California, well, we see the tragic results when voters had a choice of several outstanding Medicare For ALL candidates who were Democrats, independents and a Green - yet even their votes totaled together couldn’t compete with all the idiots who voted for Pelosi (unless it’s election fraud). Now she’ll run against a Republican in the general, I believe. But I sure wouldn’t vote for her in that, either. I wouldn’t vote for her or any of her fellow corporatists - and I wouldn’t go to Starbucks either because of Howard Schultz’s comment. I wouldn’t shop any store or company where the CEOs oppose Medicare For All.

Grow some spine, People - and grow some brain cells, too. If you don’t start walking the talk, Medicare For All is not going to fall from Heaven above for you! And from the corporate wing of the Democratic Party, no less! We have to make it happen ourselves - and at the polls. We have to vote them out - and vote people in who are ready pass this legislation immediately - without blinking an eye.


#18

That is a good point. The U.S. has been trying to destroy Medicare and Medicaid since it started. They are trying a new approach. Too many vested interests is my guess. And, Medicare is really a great idea and is protected in such a way that it is not that easy to end it. Not that they are all bad, they are looking out for their own interests, I just dislike it when they represent it as anything else.


#19

Let’s start with the techno toys and techno-Frankensteins such as flying cars, AI synthbots, GMOs, weaponized drones, recreational flamethrowers, etc.
People who make these things have no respect for the precautionary principle. They fail to ask themselves not just if something can be done, but should it be done.
Nor do they care. They’re like crazy little kids with Lego blocks, building things that will do great harm, for profit and just because they can.
Secondly, consumer capitalism is the religion of the USA and much of the world. It has no heart, ethics, or soul. It doesn’t care about human health, innocent animals, or the biosphere.


#20

Did you mean (assuming we have single payer) _‘encourages’_people working independently?

You make some good points re control. But as we all know, corporations are concerned primarily with one item: Profits. It would take some serious accounting work but I still have to believe that after factoring in the bargaining chip of a quality healthcare plan (usually available only to management) vs eliminating all healthcare costs for present and past employees, the latter would save money. And since we’re only talking about U.S. corporations - you know, the only country without some government involvement in healthcare - these companies are competing against other foreign entities being subsidized.

I agree completely that the last thing the wealthy and corporations want is for the masses to recognize the benefits of organizing for the majority’s common good. It would be as if the entire population of the working class were acting as one giant union if we voted for single payer by electing those who support it. That’s the reason why the right constantly undercuts any collective efforts, such as ACORN, Black Lives Matter, Occupy Wall Street and, of course, unions.

The elephant in the room is obviously how to pay for it. By any credible study and common sense, single payer is cheaper because of vastly lower overhead and bargaining power by the government. But, to pacify the naysayers, I still wouldn’t make it SEEM free. Just like the SS and Medicare payroll taxes we now pay, means testing seems the fairest way.

For those concerned about obliterating private insurers, many will still be standing. They’ll have to adjust and customize their prices and policies. As we all contribute to public schools, a certain percentage of the the financially comfortable and those who don’t trust government still opt for private education. Yes, conservatives and libertarians, I’m talking about something near and dear to your heart - real competition!! … from that inept and wasteful government of ours.

Finally, what is it worth to never worry about healthcare coverage? It’s the leading cause of bankruptcy and who knows the toll on stress levels. Most of all, it’s the most humane, as every citizen is covered, regardless of income or job vagaries.