Donald Trump’s campaign boast that “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters” may still hold true for the dead-enders who cling to the fantasy that he’s a competent commander in chief. But the Trump team doesn’t set the standard for presidential accountability. That was done back in 1787, when the initiators of the American experiment delineated the impeachment power that is suddenly all the rage.
Don't hold your breath waiting for Republicans in Congress to jump on the impeachment bandwagon. They'll continue to employ pretzel logic in support of Trump because support for Trump with Rs back home remains strong. For these R political illiterates, the more Trump offends and, in their view, "shakes things up", the better. They're immune to facts or critical thinking. Take your pick between Trump or his hardcore supporters as to which is more frightening. We're stuck with Trump till at least 2018 and likely 2020.
Nichols fails to mention that most Democrats and all Republicans have been instructed by their major corporate donors to back Trump's policies of undermining the public interest or else they will withdraw their financial support. If every single Republican lost their seat in the next election, corporatists simply would replace them with other sycophants. Because Americans are locked into this frame of thinking that only a Democrat or a Republican can win, companies have simply bought out both parties.
Not only are we stuck with Trump till 2020, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is re-elected in 2020.
It is time to make the case for not impeaching Trump, because the problem is much deeper than this buffoon. Impeaching Trump will not solve anything, any more than the potential impeachment and resignation of Nixon solved anything. Ford pardoned Nixon, what makes Nichols think that Pence would not pardon Trump? Because like Nixon, Trump would probably resign if he thought he was close to being impeached.
I disagree. Trump is the medicine this country has needed for a long time. He is stripping the veneer of civility and rationality from the republican party. The dems of course are another story, but we had to start somewhere, and revealing the republicans for the greedy fascists they are is a good start. Handing the reins to Pence only brings a semblance of sane governance without its actuality and would drape the emperor with at least a loin cloth while the destruction of us and our country would again fly under the radar. No good thing can ever come from republican governance, so let's at least allow Trump, the avatar of fundamental republicanism, reveal the destructive idiocy of his party. If that sweeps the dems into power, so be it. They are next on the list, and if they do what they normally do (take the money and fuck the working class), the progressive forces in this country will have gained a strong following and hopefully gain power following the betrayal of us all by both major parties. Mike Pence is NOT the solution.
Impeach Trump, get President Pence. How would that improve things?
People act like impeaching Trump would accomplish nothing and some act as if were it to happen that Pence would be worse. Had Pence been elected, he might well have been worse because he would have been more competent but him getting into office through the impeachment of his predecessor is something else again.
First, Pence would be tainted by having been part of an administration which resulted in impeachment. Where was Pence involved and would be culpable himself.
Secondly, Pence (assuming that he escaped culpability) would be seen as a non elected substitute. The veep gets in only because the other guy got elected. Were Pence to try to act high handed it would rightfully provoke a response to what would be seen as part of a repudiated (through the impeachment, rightfully or not) administration and its agenda.
There is a big difference between being elected in your own right and acquiring the Oval Office through default. Imagine Nixon resigning before Agnew did. Had Agnew become president would he have had an easy time of it? Nope!
Pence doesn't get to slip in without any trouble. The administration he belonged to got impeached and he would not be able to pretend that he had no idea of what had been going on!
I think you're more optimistic than I am. I don't feel there are any forces out there that would come into play against a President Pence, just because he became President via the impeachment of the elected President. As it is, the Republicans do exactly what they want, despite losing the Presidency by millions of votes, and despite the fact that their "leader", Trump, has an approval rating around 40%, early in his Presidency.
The Democrats are useless, and would probably be more cooperative with Pence, than they are with Trump.
The press would also support a Pence Presidency more than Trump's.
The only argument I can see for a betterment of things if Trump is removed, is that, possibly, Pence is less likely to lose his temper and start a nuclear war than is Trump.
Well no nuclear ...um...that's something I guess! Lol
We respectfully disagree. I see your points about the Dems working with him etc but one would hope that despite Pelosi voting republican (in secret in the voting booth) that the Dems would finally attempt to fight back from the high ground (okay maybe a speed bump isn't all that high a ground but it is a bit higher!).
I think the Dems are actually scared that they blew it last time around and that they have really put a deep crack in their base. People see them as being as corrupt as the Repubs but they see the Dems as corrupt losers who are pretty damn dumb to have not backed the most popular candidate. Every time the Dems fail at fighting the Repubs, the public sees them as perennial losers. No impeachment by the Dems means no respect for the Dems by the voters. Everyone remembers how the Repubs treated the Dems over something far less serious. Yet the Dems punk out and people have come to expect them to be so weak as to be unsuitable for the WH.
We will see in 18 if the Dems have realized just how much they have lost the respect of the voters. People are not enthusiastic about the Dems except for maybe Sanders or Warren. People know that they can't trust the old guard Dems anymore. Pelosi is literally destroying the Dem party for a long time to come.
I'm going to respond to your first comment rather than your following exchange with @Dolgen because the two of you went off into lalaland in misunderstanding Pence's function in the administration (the price of the GOP ticket) and his own purposes in the office (exactly to trigger Armaggedon/Rapture, in which he was sadly disappointed Easter weekend at the Korean DMZ), and most bizarrely your vilification of Nancy Pelosi (where do you get off presuming her behavior in the voting booth?).
I do think you have a point in Pence's own vulnerability, and I don't think he actually gets along very well with Ryan or McConnell or wants to play the legislation game. I'm not sure he would stick around, being now a broken man. I think he wants to go home to Indiana, or maybe Arkansas.
But the real point is that we have to stop playing political games. The Constitution says if an officer commits high crimes and misdemeanors, they must be removed from office. The case has been made. We need to press it and insist. That's we the people. Who does what after that is just the next thing for which we have to hold them accountable.
Yep especially if the DNC have anything to say about it. Like seriously considering running Mark fucking Zuckerberg for President or possibly even Hillary Clinton again.
Trump won't get impeached because the Dems won't allow it. He's all they have. This does not mean that he will serve out his term, or even a year of it. He's become such an embarrassment to "his people" that they may force him to resign (or get him another way).
Legally, Pence and the Cabinet can remove him from office. In any case, the Dems will stall and hem and haw as they continue to slip-and-slide into the oblivion of HATE TRUMP rather than presenting a progressive program to rally people around and candidates who are not accountants for Goldman Sachs. ALL HAIL THE DUOPOLY! SEIG HEIL!
" The Dems won't allow it."
I agree because if there is one thing the corrupt Democratic party is very good at is covertly and surreptitiously pretending to be the opposition party, when they are really the fake,opposition party.
Well said Wereflea. I too feel if Trump is Impeached, Pence, Ryan, and the whole Republican Party Establishment would be seriously neutered.
Your example of Nixon and Agnew is spot on.
When Clinton was impeached and Nixon nearly so, the Congress was controlled by their political opposition. Today that is not so and thus it won't happen.