Consider this. You’re a mob boss. You run a $1.8 trillion network of businesses across state lines and continents. Many of these are legit, but a select subset of them – not so much. Every so often the illegal components flare up; some Washington commission launches an investigation, someone blows a whistle, people lose their homes, a pack of investors sheds a ton of money and lawsuits fly. You get reprimanded and have to pay lawyers and accountants overtime to deal with the paperwork. You settle on fines with the government — $10 billion worth.
I agree with Naomi's outrage, but not with her call for prison terms. As she points out:
In our justice system, 1 in 5 people is incarcerated for drug offenses, whereas zero big bank CEOs have even been indicted. The majority of youth incarcerated are locked up for non-violent crimes, while their Wall Street counterparts commit multibillion-dollar fraud and walk the streets.
Repeating the same mistake we make with drug offenders does nothing for the victims, society or those drug offenders for that matter -- it only feeds our primeval instincts of revenge. Prison is one of the few prehistoric institutions still in use today, marriage being the only other that comes to mind. Can we do no better than a prehistoric knee-jerk in the face of wrong-doing?
I'd much rather see a judgment entered against him and his culpable co-managers to make the victims whole --- making that obligation something could not be discharged in bankruptcy, so that he spends the rest of his working career, if necessary, paying the victims back. Restorative actions serve greater justice than punitive ones, in my view.
I, for one, really appreciate Ms. Prins' outrage. I've been looking for someone to be scathing in their response to this yet another fraudulent practice since the story first broke. So thank you.
Also, given that jail time is our current 'punishment of choice' I agree that jail time for a CEO is necessary to stop the unremitting robbery of banksters. Only after that major punishment will the industry as a whole even begin to adjust their behavior.
While I am certainly in agreement about jails being an archaic form of punishment, it is the one we currently have. The likelihood of our government coming up with a suitable form of restorative justice in a timely manner is somewhere between zero and zilch, and would only be effective in postponing _any__ punishment at all.
Then I assume that you would "allow" multiple drug offenders to do the same work to escape hard time????
Jail Stumpf sure!
But why stop there ??? Also jail about a thousand other Wall Street bankers who are either just as guilty of FRAUD or largely even MORE guilty of FRAUD.
Restorative justice is a great idea. Instead of jail time confiscate most of the executive's life earnings and distribute it to the victims. Leave them with the an equivalent net worth of their their average victims. That'll give them an opportunity to learn compassion, help those that have suffered AND send a message to their peers.
Whatever Tom 1 posted, that you are replying to, got "disappeared" by the time I got here.
I understand the apparatus involved in"flagging", but what are the mechanics behind a comment simply evaporating?
On CNBC Fast Money they had a " Wall of Shame"---These were the congress people who called on Stumpf to resign and took money from Wells Fargo. The Wall Street commentators were outraged that these congress people dare be critical of the bankers while taking their campaign donations ( bribes.) The commentators demanded that these congress people return the money.
We have a two tier system in this country the elites and the slaves. And then their are the gate keeps,politicians,the media,and the police.
What these elite people are earning is obscene!
Why don't we hear from some of these people who got fired?????
And I hope people of Wisconsin caught what Dem Rep Owen Moore stated----she is very upset that Mr. Stumpf is loosing his bonus money------I wonder how much she is getting from the bankers???
Agree or at least do as @marlborough said:
Seriously, let's put this into perspective, people get incarcerated for being poor. For example - Debt Prisons:
and this example:
Arkansas judge’s ‘debtors’ prison’ court jailed cancer patient over unpaid bills: lawsuit - Source
Post Edit - Addition: I am troubled by these Debt-Prisons and it must be stopped. Anyone doing time for not able to pay i.e. medical debts or other petty crimes such as cannabis use should be set free.
I support Jill Stein. Respect for all life and the environment.
Ayn Rand is surely smiling.
One of the Obama Administration's signature accomplishments, Dodd/Frank legislation enabled the five too-big-to-fail banks that controlled 25% of US bank assets when they crashed the economy in 2008 to now control nearly 50% of bank assets with no end in sight to their rush to monopoly. Dodd/Frank conversely makes it harder for community banks to survive. Page 131 of Government Accountability Office report GAO 11-696 confirms that Congress has put US taxpayers on the hook for $16 trillion in bailouts. With so much money in so few hands, the next crash will see taxpayer funded bailouts exponentially larger than $16 trillion.
Although Trump claims he will kill Dodd/Frank he has not mentioned what he will replace it with.
Sanders and Stein are the only players in the 2016 election cycle to even mention the possibility of breaking up the banks.
Thank you for another "lets get it right this time", Naomi Prins-
YOU are one hell of A LADY for not losing your humanity and trying to hold these vultures to pay for their transgressions against the common folk victims who are still languishing in the hell created for them by these barbarians-
You should be the next Attorney General of this Country- Then we'll see the hair fly!!!!
Oh, and by the way, Obama and Eric Holder both belong behind bars, along with all of the other "usual suspects", for their complicity-
Restitution? That's what the fines supposedly represent, yet this conduct continues. Jail time for Stumpf and his ilk will serve to show that this behavior will no longer be tolerated. Fines are passed onto the consumers in higher banking fees -- thus the public gets ripped off, TWICE.
When Strumpf and his buddies realize time in a federal pen translates into no more long weekends at the vaca home in Martha's Vineyard and ferget about taking the Yacht out to the Grand Prix in Monaco where the "boat" docking fees begin around $100,000 for five days. Prison will give these white collar crooks time to think about the misery they've put others through to support their richer than god lifestyles.
Strumpf testified before Congress that Wells Fargo pressured employees to push (cross-selling) customers into 8 different accounts. Eight accounts was decided upon in the boardroom because 8 rhymes with "great:" "8 is GREAT." I propose 8 is GREAT in the number of years these crooks spend in the federal pen.
Not only did hourly wage employees work under the constant fear of being terminated if they could not reach this quota, 5300 were terminated for fraudulently creating accounts in an effort to keep a job. (A job that translates into a roof over theirs and their families heads. And no, someone earning 8 BUCKS/hr isn't yucking up weekends in the Vineyard or Monaco.)
Cross-selling: sell (a different product or service) to an existing customer.
Strumpf defined "cross-selling" during his testimony as: "Cross-selling is shorthand for deepening relationships." "deepening relationships"? He thinks we are all idiots. Cross-selling is shorthand for another $10 million in the bonus pool. Wells pushes 8 accounts, the industry norm is 3.
Actually fines have nothing to do with restitution; they are only an added form of punishment that helps fuel our of control criminal justice system. Both incarceration and fines serve as form of revenge for society, but actually do nothing for us. Incarceration is expensive as well. Your approach allows Strumpf to trade time (which he would lose in prison) for money (which he would keep). My approach denies him ill-gotten gains and actually provides restitution to the victims. It also forces the wrong-doer to confront what he has done and its impact on the victim.
It is a form of our collective insanity that we continue to imprison people based on the false believe that imprisonment deters crime and delivers "justice" in the form of punishment. I can't recall a day when I've awaken felt better off because punishment was inflicted on others. I'd rather see them reformed than punished.
Restitution is to make amends. If he ain't got it, he ain't got it. What you are proposing is a fairy tale, or maybe even a movie: rich man gives up all his ill-gotten gains to help the little people. It is not going to happen.
The fines imposed on these banks go straight to the government and are paid by consumers. Wells, in this case, will be forced to make restitution to their customers for fraudulent fines and fees charged their accounts -- and rightly so however it is just a drop in the bucket to Wells.
If Strumpf, or anyone like him, goes to prison he will not be going to a regular prison, he'll be going to a country club. It is naive to believe that Strumpf does not know the harm that Wells Fargo has caused. He knows, he simply does not care. Loss of his freedom to enjoy his rich and famous lifestyle is about the worst that can happen to him.
No one is saying "prison deters crime" it is foolish to believe so. However prison removes people from society where they cannot continue doing what they were doing -- and this is a very good thing. Don't try to convince yourself Strumpf need to be "re-educated" he and his buddies have probably received the finest and most expensive education money can buy.
We need to enslave the crooked banisters rather than drug users. After, drug users are being imprisoned for merely using an unapproved substance to escape this hellish environment most live in thanks to these crooked banisters. Let them pick cotton, corn, and tomatoes and pay back their victims at the same pay that drug users get paid in prison.
Drug offenders shouldn't be in jail to begin with. What have they done to you other than use a substance you disapprove of?
Probably misunderstand my post.......or maybe it wasn't really "clear"...my point is that drug offenders get harsher "time" than financial geniuses that commit outright fraud and really hurt millions.