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Judge Asks ACLU for "Possible Punishment" Ideas After Trump Misses Deadline to Reunite Youngest Children With Parents


#21

I expect the judge to treat them like any other citizen, Dept. of Homeland Sec. goes to jail for contempt until all children are reunited with their parents. No different than anyone of us.


#22

While I would support such sanctions against government officials responsible for forcibly taking kids from immigrant parents, the reality is that courts are extremely unlikely to do so. A Yale Law School meta study on the power courts have over Federal officials found to be in contempt of court found:

" Imprisonment has occurred only twice, never for more than a few hours, and in both instances, the biggest losers proved to be the imprisoning judges, one of whom was thrown off the case for bias, while the other recused himself to avoid a similar fate." - Professor Nicholas Parrillo, January 12, 2018

In general, the study found:

“First, the federal judiciary is willing to issue contempt findings against agencies and officials. Second, while several federal judges believe they can (and have tried to) attach sanctions (fines and imprisonment) to these findings, the higher courts have exhibited a virtually complete unwillingness to allow sanctions, at times swooping down at the eleventh hour to rescue an agency from incurring a budget-straining fine or its top official from being thrown in jail.” - Professor Nicholas Parrillo, January 12, 2018

Source:THE ENDGAME OF ADMINISTRATIVE LAW:
GOVERNMENTAL DISOBEDIENCE AND THE JUDICIAL
CONTEMPT POWER, Nicolas Parrillo, Harvard Law Review, Volume 131, Pages 685-794 (2018)
https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=973027002121127090020066100099114102121064057008063030022092030122071070004092099006055120040032010124035120107112092094079121058020029085067019030070084116007091057093041009010072008110025003122096093064119087004068102093008017026103110066065067003&EXT=pdf


#23

Wouldn’t that be contempt of court. They are ordered to show cause. Right now they are responsible for each child individually and that actually protects the children even though it takes more time.


#24

17 YEARS?
Jimmy Carter was the last President to rightfully claim not to have had a single shot fired during his administration. But he was a military man unlike the actors, oil magnates and grifters we’ve had since. We have been fighting somewhere since 1980 which is 37 years.


#25

Yes. I stand corrected.


#26

Oh wow, I was just thinking since Bush the 2nd -----but whoa---------yeah, we’ve never stopped since North Korea… oh wow, we have been at war with somebody since forever! It’s like WW 2 never ended. Oh it’s really time to stop this! The planet can’t take much more. If there were no wars, would climate change slow down???.


#27

I hope you mean that kindly and don’t feel I was reprimanding you!


#28

The them I was talking about was Trumps cronies. And yes I meant contempt of court.
For the most part, I think we’re on the same page.


#29

Thanks for that, there have been a lot of questionable rulings making it difficult to sort them out, but this actually helps in my opinion. Trump casts a very bad image of this but there are people that still have ethics sorting it out.


#30

I mean you are definitely right that there is little they can do to the Trump administration itself & despite the suggestions by others (that will not happen in a million years,) I think there might be some decent realistic possibilities available. Perhaps a temporary visa to the families awaiting to be reunited with children providing accommodations at some decent hotel in the local area + a daily per diem for food & what not. I would imagine the government would at the very least want tracking bracelets or something on them “just in case” or whatever, but I don’t think I would have a problem with this… it’s got to be better than those detention facilities. Then providing for a daily restitution that the families get of (x) amount per day past the deadline their children have not been brought back to them. Make the restitution amounts incapable of being taken by law enforcement, the courts, or the government to cover any sort of fine, court fees, etc… they may try to use to just take it right back from them before deporting them (assuming they are eventually reunited with their children.) Possibly the money might be enough to allow them the opportunity to alter the circumstances that caused their desire to apply for asylum in the first place (i.e. move, provide for family, etc…)

Then possibly an order for ICE agents to take (y) hours of various types of training (i.e. implicit-bias or racial sensitivity type training,) and/or improve, update, or add to the department policies procedures & measures to prevent this sort of thing happening again [you can’t address the policy priorities stuff the President assigns only the internal department stuff that has led to them not being able to identify which minors were taken from which adult family members… but it’s something.]


#31

PLEASE DON’T TAKE THIS PERSONALLY

Mr. Downard, really!

There are so many like you—in this country—on CD—on every “liberal” comment board. I’m speaking to all of you here, o.k.?

And speaking for many who have always been, and remain, largely voiceless in the U.S.’s “democratic process.”

DON’T TAKE THIS PERSONALLY,

Mr. Downard, but:

EAST TIMOR.

There are plenty of other places the Carter Administration fired plenty of shots, including at “Americans.”

The routine and customary violence of these “United States” was not on holiday between 1976 and 1980, despite the famous solar panels on the White House.

But for a single horrifying and trenchant example of the Carter administration’s profitable participation in genocide, slavery and ecocide: East Timor.

(Amy Goodman did a lot of courageous work there. You could even say that “Democracy Now” was built on the blood and bones of the East Timorese.)

There is NO possibility of our changing the root dynamics of this empire without admitting that the U.S. has always been a violent empire, not a “democratic republic.”

Any “exceptions” tend to appear as such only to massively ignorant—or quite privileged—Americans.

Mostly, these “exceptions” are deployed by the privileged. For the massively ignorant, “We’re America! We’re the best!” tends to suffice.

No, the folks who are always insisting that the United States REALLY WAS, ONCE UPON A TIME, that shining city on the hill, are most often from the class required to finance and lend moral legitimacy to the empire.

So, if you’re really not down with what the empire is up to today, STOP FEEDING IT by pretending it was ever fundamentally different.

Stop pretending there was some “Golden Age” of Truth, Beauty and Goodness—some Golden Age “we” can simply return to in order to resolve today’s egregious crimes.’

(“What you mean ‘we’, white boy? You are white, right? Of course you are.” For only a very few mind-blind people of color have ever managed to totally hypnotize and anesthetize themselves with this magical thinking—and always, in order to get some of what you’ve been having…Mostly, this fiction has been the preferred drug of those called to finance and lend moral legitimacy to the empire.)

Something much more radical is required to transform the cruel history of the “United States”.

If that fact is too uncomfortable for you, then try being as honest as this regime actually is, despite its constant strategic deployment of the lie.

They don’t really care, o.k.?

They find acknowledging this fact to be refreshing, and empowering.

Hey, if you can’t beat them, join them, right?

Try it on: admit that you don’t really care about all those who’ve been tortured and murdered by the U.S. empire.

Admit that you only care about “you and yours”.

Admit that maintaining your disproportionate consumption of the Commons, while feeling good about everything you do, including financing and lending moral legitimacy to the force that brings us the Sixth Mass Extinction, is, as Madeleine Albright put it, worth the price. Including 500,000 dead Iraqi children.

Hey, what’s a few hundred—or few thousand—Latin American children compared with that?

DON’T TAKE THIS PERSONALLY, BUT:

(whispering) your comment indicates that

you might just be part of the problem!

Not only part of the solution, though that’s so much more comfortable to imagine…


#32

I think all of the children and their lawyers and advocates should be transferred to the Trump DC Hotel at the expense of the Trump Family. The stay should be free of charge until all of the children are united with a parent or guardian.


#33

These are excellent suggestions, gamesjon. I don’t know if the ACLU has considered all that you’ve mentioned. I hope you will forward your suggestions to the ACLU.


#34

What really irks me is that several of the parents have been deported with their children still being held in detention. Deported WITHOUT their children! What kind of plan is that?!?


#35

This is contempt of the court. For you and I that could lead to time in jail. I think that would be most appropriate for Trump, Sessions and the head of ICE.


#36

It’s called the lawless US Child Abuse Plan.


#37

yes, imminent domain.


#38

I’ve always contended that the U.S. was a fascist nation just by the way descendents of Africa were treated here. For a lot of white people to accept that fascist notion is difficult because they do not embrace the totality of US history which included the treatment of everyone. We should try to adapt the philosophy that what happens to one of us, happens to all of us. As a nation, our ancestors were slaves and slave owners but this nation practiced fascism and terrorism on many of our people.


#39

It was also during the Carter years that the US started to fund Osama Bin Ladin’s efforts to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Carter also had Zbigniew Brzezinski as his national security adviser. That in itself doesn’t say much for Carter. I don’t know if any US president has ever had their hands free of blood shedding. It comes with the territory and they play a game that most of us don’t understand. As a whole, I think people in the US have quaint notions of their presidents and government. It is not what it might appear to be on the surface.


#40

Probably taking away his Twitter account would actually phase the Orange One. The ACLU should suggest that to the judge…

As to the suggestion for jail time, I would suggest that they be sentenced to the cages housing these children, or even living in the tent cities being constructed on military bases. Fair and equal?