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Looming Coronavirus Threat in US Bolsters Case for Medicare for All and Universal Paid Sick Leave

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#21

Well, Lamonte, I’ll start with your numbers. 20-30 million cases of the coronavirus and a 2% death rate would equal 500,000 American deaths in a year. That’s still not good.

You have made two assumptions in your post: first, that China has a so-so healthcare system, and by implication, second, that the USA has a superb healthcare system by comparison.

I’m going to do a Bernie Sanders here and look rather dispassionately at the Chinese healthcare system. They may not do many heart transplants. Worse, their autocratic leadership was a major cause of the coronavirus spreading all over China, first through enforced secrecy, second through an imposed lockdown with lots of holes that in practice encouraged carriers to evacuate Wuhan by the millions.

On the other hand, China delivers a basic level of medical care to all of its citizens. Nobody dies while sleeping under a bridge. If anyone is sick, they live or die in a hospital bed. So, the coronavirus might possibly have a slightly higher death rate in another country.

The U.S. health care system covers all sorts of operations if you have good insurance, but a high percentage of people won’t afford to take a fever to the emergency room. Many people are still on the Republican Don’t Get Sick plan. Many seniors don’t want to have to pay their $135 Medicare Plan B deductible for any particular year. Millions of people want to stay under the radar. So let’s say it, we’re going to see a bunch of dead people in the U.S. I don’t see an argument that China’s 2% death rate is going to higher than the death rate in the U.S.

I throw out the 1,000,000 American dead as an order of magnitude estimate. If I’m off by a factor of 2 in either direction, it’s still a rough ballpark guess.

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#22

You must accept this on faith: invisible hands that are allied with big money are doing good in the world.

If the previous statement makes you feel a bit sick, that’s not the coronavirus. Rich people and strongmen have been claiming divine authority going back at least to Pharaoh, who was a descendant of the sun god. Under the Roman Catholic church they toned it down just a bit to the Divine Right of Kings. Now we have some magic hands that you can’t see, and guess who owns them?

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#23

From Wikipedia:

" Healthcare in China consists of both public and private medical institutions and insurance programs. About 95% of the population has at least basic health insurance coverage. Despite this, public health insurance generally only covers about half of medical costs, with the proportion lower for serious or chronic illnesses. Under the “Healthy China 2020” initiative, China is currently undertaking an effort to cut healthcare costs, and the government requires that insurance will cover 70% of costs by the end of 2018 The Chinese government is working on providing affordable basic healthcare to all residents by 2020. China has also become a major market for health-related multinational companies. Companies such as AstraZeneca, Eli Lilly, Merek entered the Chinese market and have experienced explosive growth. China has also become a growing hub for health care research and development. China’s 2050 healthcare spending can reach up to what Germany’s current GDP is, which is as much as $5 trillion.

Organ transplantation in China has taken place since the 1960s, and is one of the largest organ transplant programs in the world, peaking at over 13,000 liver and kidney transplants a year in 2004. China is also involved in innovative transplant surgery such as face transplantation including bone.

#24

The For-Profit-Healthcare industry in the US is focused on cost reduction and revenue enhancement, not pro-active preventative healthcare.

This is why Trump answered [paraphrased], “I’m a businessman. I don’t want to keep thousands of people (public health and infectious disease) people around if we don’t need them. We can just call them back in.”

That’s the strategy of short-sighted cost savings at the expense of long-term preparedness —Knowing the cost of everything and value of nothing.

Many thousands of people will die as a direct result of Trump’s simpleton thinking. Their deaths ( including maybe mine and yours) will be at his feet.

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#26

Really? When I had no insurance, and now $1600 a month state insurance with huge deductibles and co-payments… I understood then and understand now that I have NO rights.

So maybe you misunderstood your wife… or made it up just to pump your ego. But in my experience (personal) and people I know, your “always” is our never.

Also, when I was in an accident (a head on collision with a car that crossed the line) riding my motorcycle, I was worked on for about 10 minutes, basically cleaning cuts at that point to stop the bleeding, and being questioned by “intake” nurse.

When I mentioned I had no insurance all of the doctors and half the nurses left the room. Those that remained packed me up to send me to a “county funded” hospital. Their reasoning? I didn’t look like I was going to be harmed by waiting. This is before x-rays were taken, internal injuries were looked for… basically I had stopped bleeding externally was all they knew.

So take your false assumptions about how life works for others, and shove it!

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#27

Hey Seeker, sorry that happened to you. It makes a difference in what state you live. I think your care was transferred to a hospital that would cover the cost of your care, sometimes it is the same care and even the same doctors. Usually, there is a program within the hospital but again, it depends where you live and now hospital availability. That can happen with hospital shortages no matter what your coverage is, even Medicare.

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#28

It was over 10 hours before I actually got to see the next doctor… I sat on a gurney in a hallway for those hours. No one, regardless of where they live, should be treated like that.

And I know you are not attacking what I say, just trying to console and make sense of it like we all are. So I am not offended by your words. But I was by the one I was responding to.

The “everything must be good for you because it is for me” attitude, or worse, a “I don’t give a crap about other people, it isn’t my problem”… or the VERY worst, a “I am always right, so you are always wrong, facts don’t matter” mentality.

So thank you for your kind words. I try not to take things personal and react emotionally to fools. I usually just ignore them. But I still have parts of me that haven’t healed correctly, that I have to deal with every day. So his words hit a nerve.

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#29

Oh ok. It is very upsetting to have that kind of experience at a hospital and you are correct, sometimes it is not good care and it sounds like things did not go as they should have. I’ve had some challenging times as well. I’m glad you survived.

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#31

Wow sorry to read about your experience. I am glad you survived it. That was a long time before they checked you that could have resulted in some real damage to your health or death. I agree about the attitudes you described. So many people could care less if it is not them with the problems. It is a huge part of what is wrong in the US an attitude of uncaring for the suffering of others. Too many of our “leaders” exhibit that kind of attitude. They are setting a bad example. One more reason we need Bernie.

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#32

Thank you for your condescending words… now crawl back under your rock.

You have no understanding of what I said, but you prove what I think of you is true.

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#33

Thank you. I know for sure my knees were damaged by the move, and my neck probably was too. I have limited motion in one direction and a paid from my pocket doctor I went to for advice said that, and two ruptured discs and vertebral fractures in my upper back are part of that problem.

We need to find a way to keep things like this from happening over and over to others. I use myself as an example because it is the one I know the best. But I am not alone. Take care.

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#34

I also have a shitty experience in the hospital after a motorcycle accident with no insurance, won’t bore you with the details, other than this, 36 min. in the ER Trauma room, with no treatment cost me $2400 out of my pocket. You just found out arguing with lamonte7 is a waste of time, we’ve all been there.

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#35

As most here know I’m all in for EIM4A, but this virus brings up another topic no one is talking about. There’s evidence that the coronavirus is a biological weapon that escaped China’s lab in Wuhan. How about a new law to clean out and dispose of our biological weapons from all our labs across the country. How mentally ill do you have to be, to consider using these weapons even on our most hated enemies?

ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCo1Aoyx358 / Francis Boyle: Wuhan Coronavirus is an Offensive Biological Weapon

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#36

America’s “health care” system Potemkin curtain about to be pulled back.

#37

Medicare is not perfect, but having been on it for several years now, I have few complaints. It is so much better than the privatized trash I had before. And as far as the cost of M4A is concerned, a few billionaire tax increases and dumping an aircraft carrier or two (which are just floating targets for cruise missiles anyway) would go a long way toward paying for it.
And as far as paid sick leave is concerned, we already have a version of that here in Washington State, which has been controlled by Democrats for decades, BTW.

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#38

Capt Trips anyone? (Thanks to Stephen King, The Stand)

In the worse case not only will we not have enough ICU beds but also the insurance companies will burn through all of their reserves then the only possible way, excepting of course a multi-billion dollar bailout, to provide care will be through Medicare For All no matter who is in power. That alone shows how inadequate our current profit driven health care system is.

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#39

Hummm, or the healthcare industry will just buy out interested parties and run the show to suit themselves. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

#40

Yes, that puts it well. We spend all our lives choosing actions in accord with circumstances, yet so often we fail to see that the circumstances that we place around other people will determine their choices.

#41

Well indeed that is sometimes true in sometimes, always true in other times. Here we have been given two very poorly articulated choices. What bothers me is when vigilante justice becomes policy.

#43

Where I live, everyone pays for healthcare. Via insurance, in cash, or you are billed. Some go on monthly payment plans.

1 Like