Sure, I agree about the right to protest, and I’m not a student of legal history here, but I do not think there is right to protest if it rises to the level of threat or harassment, I believe. At the very least, I’d think the right to protest, assembly, must disappear once violence and harassment actually break out during the permitted protest. When people are showing up, on both sides, like militias, law enforcement must respond immediately and decisively, separate sides, and arrest people committing assaut. I would think that that at least is defensible in court. But once enough of these protests cum street battles are permitted, I think the legal prejudice against permitting them in the first place potentially becomes easier to sustain in court. So, yes, permit the protest for the removal of a statue, but if folks are showing up as paramilitary, obviously tantamount threat or harassment, their right to assembly is limited. At the very, very, least, I gotta believe the city, state, institution, is a much healthier public commonwealth by choosing to fight in court instead of just allowing what they all know is high probability violence, at this point. Re-open the jurisprudence, as needed, and let the courts decide, again and again. Much better paths than cars plowing into crowded streets, I think.
The irony is that human life started in Africa so all these white nationalists are truly black at their core. How people can even believe color matters is beyond my understanding. Racism is a mental illness.
During the campaign, I talked about how Trump was emboldening the alt-right. No one here cared very much, all the precious, privileged progressives wanted to “vote their conscience.” Apparently, they’re okay with the Nazis feeling emboldened. They have a clean conscience.
Just remember: those Nazis aren’t wearing Hillary hats.
I think you have to look at each situation individually. I would agree if all the signs point to a situation that police might not be able to handle then a protest could be cancelled. But we have police. They should be able to handle most situations. If people are violent they can be arrested and could wind up in prison. The main objective though it to maintain free speech for everyone.
My understanding is that the police stood down:
Amen brother! Everyday the madness of Trump is on display for the world to see. America has elected Nero and hitler rolled into one…this is not going to end well…Unless people of goodwill stand up…fighting against evil is not equal to evil…Trump false equivalency gives evil an equal standing with righteousness
Why did the city issue a parade permit without ensuring that there would be no weapons involved?
There were guns, bats, flag staffs, pepper spray, shields, etc. and the Nationalists were dressed like military, looking for trouble.
Open carry is one thing. An armed attack on a city is quite another.
Interesting that they stand down when white people commit vehicular homicide but when a black person obeys their orders it is gunning them down where they stand.
I have no idea why bkswrites brought it up. Seemed like a total non-sequitur to me.
Militant atheists? In a recent poll 97% of adults (?) would not vote for an " out " atheist. Please, that kind of cheapshot b.s. ( more agitprop ) does get people killed. They can lose their jobs, friends, et al. The personal journey of atheists and other non-believers ( Christian ) is unique. The violence and hate on display today in Charlottesville Va. U.S.A. is not, unfortunately. Check up from the neck up, ok?
I watched some of this, then turned off the TEEVEE.
I don’t need to ever see David Duke’s ( of racial hazard ) face, again. And, Trump & His Racist Wrecking Crew of Alt-Right Lunatics, either. People of good faith ( most of the locals and the center-left progressive groups ) are damn tired of this kind of white bullying and thuggery, propped up by a right wing police and security state. It is what it is!
We, real patriots of the entire Constitution, are also tired of getting the run-around by The Uniparty’s defense of the status quo, in our politicized and. one-sided economy. The tepid and timid gov’t technocrats can no longer tweak the system to keep things under control. Their inaction is what " under control " looks like when an ancient asshole like Gen. Robert E. Lee is allowed to linger around our Commons. That’s not noble; it’s pure, political chickenshit. To the Old Confederate States: Hello!
I’m glad Sen. Sanders statements were very measured and to the point; we don’t need any more gasoline around the fires currently smoldering. I’ll leave that to Trump and his T-Party supporters. They’re getting really good at trying to destroy the country.
- 3 dead and 35+ reported injured. Yikes!
That is absolute hogwash. Lenin? Stalin? Pol Pot? Castro? Robespierre? Babeuf? That’s some pretty whacky projection if you can read Robespierre and call him a conservative. These people were brutally authoritarian and absolutely far the the left (ie liberal).
Some conservatives are authoritarian. Some liberals are authoritarian. Conservatives might be more prone to authoritarianism, but it’s nonsense to say that conservatives are authoritarian. Most libertarians are conservative.
WTF is a Left wing conservative, anyways?
Stop maligning an entire political/social/temperemental perspective. This is what creates the kind of useless polarization that puts people like Trump in power.
Most of them are from out of state, and could give a rat’s ass about Robert E. Lee or his statue. It is simply an excuse for an attempt at unifying the “alt-right”, because they are committed to “Make America White, I mean Great, Again.”
I think for the police this situation isn’t that much different than dealing with two large street gangs. The neo-Nazis/KKK are the equivalent of one gang and the anti-fascists the equivalent of another gang. The police deal with gangs that are more violent and have more weapons than these groups. The difference is that the neo-Nazis/KKK are political and have rallies and give speeches. The anti-fascists react. I think, however, if the neo-Nazis/KKK start plowing into pedestrians with cars, as appears what happened here, then I think it is taking it to another level.
So these are Trump followers, the ones he talked about in the millions that love his tough talk with North Korea, Venezuela, China and whom ever he feels like. He embolden these particular neo nazis KKK.
From the article:
Anti-fascists fight against fascism.
Btw, just saw a video of an unknown militia, carrying firearms, heading toward the park in Cville. I’m betting Dems will support their right to free speech, too. The Left will stand against them, as always.
It would have been wise to close off the area to vehicular traffic for the duration of the protest.
Sure, I agree, case by case, but it’s also true we have seen a recent national trend emerge, the signs, of which today’s calamity is an almost predictable extension. In this case, we saw a protest very quickly, and unsurprisingly, spiral into abject violence. I wasn’t surprised, at least. Because of this trend, law enforcement, even National Guard, cannot afford to take a “wait and see” or " monitor" approach, as I think I saw the Guard, quoted. They must be on the ground, heavily and organized, and tactically immediate when violence, or threat of it, even just harassment, is apparent. Now, I have no knowledge of what was happening in Charlottesville, in this regard, but it doesn’t appear to have been enough, when the threat should have been obvious in the days and weeks prior to warrant. It’s simply negligent, not due diligence, to claim in the aftermath, well, free speech. There is plenty of free speech to be had behind and proximate police cordons and street barricades and protected routes. The fact that violent mayhem occurred today with too late and too little police intervention is proof positive. Lots of fights, virtual pitched street battles going on and nary a paddy wagon in sight. much less uniforms interceding until after too much of the fact. This is all enough for public officials to read the tea leaves going forward when faced with similar protest battle lines, and be more proactive before such a “protest,” both with law enforcement presence and organization, and even to attempt permit denial in court for organizations and individuals, both sides, who are repeatedly shown to commit assaut, even just harass, as I do not think 1st Amendment jurisprudence protects harassment, incitement to violence, or violence. Maintain free speech, sure, but today the police obviously didn’t handle the situation, so there must have been more than the exercise of free speech happening.
Thank you Vox. You were right then. You are right now.
This is just too much right here:
Also, I read a suspect is in custody, waiting for confirmation of that.