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Months After GOP Approved $1.5T Giveaway to Rich, Ocasio-Cortez Shreds Those Questioning How to Pay for Bold Proposals Like Medicare for All


#21

Nah you do not pay 24 percent taxes on 25k never did in canada. You are likely including your CPP and UI payments which are seperate. 25000 income will see you pay about 2800$ total Federal and provincial and this will pay for your health care for your spouse and Children if spouse not working. (here in BC)

Thats about 11 percent.

Now I understand that FICA taxes in the USA are around 12 percent combined. Your people with 25000 income pay 12 percent FICA taxes and do not get health care until they 65.


#22

I still have a copy of my first paycheque. I was making C$25,000 and my weekly pay was C$364.59. You are correct, that included Fed tax, provincial tax, OHIP and anything else the govt thought it needed to keep everyone happy.


#23

That’s an inaccurate framing. Greece is basically in the same position that states like Mississippi are in our system, only Greece is in far worse shape because of how the EMU is structured, and what the ECB cannot do. The central bank in Greece cannot create the currency they use. There is no distributing the surplus that countries like Germany have accumulated to the periphery countries like Greece, like we do with states like California that create large surpluses that are then transferred to states like Mississippi that get more in aid than they pay in taxes. The ECB does not allow one state to help another state in fiscal trouble, and the states are barred from injecting demand into the economy beyond a certain point and the ECB cannot do a host of things that the Fed and Treasury can. The austerity being forced on Greece has actually exploded public debt, since the austerity has led to the economy collapsing at a quicker rate than the debt was being paid off. If a country owes $100 and has $100 in debt, the debt to GDP ratio is one to one. If a country pays off $20 of its debt, but austerity policies have caused the economy to shrink to $50, the debt to GDP ratio is now 80/50. Even with paying off the debt in nominal terms, the economy has shrunk so much that the debt has ballooned in real terms, and since Greece cannot create the currency it uses, it essentially owes money in a currency it cannot pay off by the government creating money or via exports to other countries in the EU. So, what’s left? Sell everything (islands, airports, ports, public assets) for pennies on the dollar. And the entirety of the “bailout” of Greece was actually a government bailout of the private banks that were exposed in Greece. Not a cent went to Greece. The country is in ruins. Greek workers work tons of hours (the only OECD country that works more hours is South Korea, last I checked), and their social spending was always well under countries like Germany. Comparing Greece to the US is absurd.

One last time anyway, public debt is not what people think it is. It isn’t. The government does not borrow money to spend. You don’t pay taxes in order for the government to spend. The government is the only institution in society that can create our official currency, either coins or dollars, our base money. It can spend whenever it wants to, although obviously doing too much can result in high inflation. If the government here in the US spends more than it takes in, leaving a deficit, that means that the government is leaving money in the private economy. That deficit is the money that is then used by the private market to buy up our bonds, and bonds are used not for the government to borrow in order to spend. The government spends first, and issuing bonds takes money out of the economy. It is a means of managing inflation and allowing the Fed and Treasury to meet interest rate targets. Some economists, like Randall Wray, have argued against the government creating and issuing bonds at all and for it to take money out of the economy by other means, like taxes, since the government managing inflation by creating bonds is essentially a public subsidy to private financial capital. The government could just inject the money into the economy and could manage inflation via taxes and limiting the amount of money that private banks create. Private banks create over nine times more money in our economy than the government does, and the government has some control over the private banks creating money.

In regards to single-payer anyway; it would save (according to Gerald Friedman’s oft cited paper) about 17 trillion over the next decade. That is 1.7 trillion per year, and funding universal college education would cost an estimated 70-80 billion a year, and that doesn’t take into account the reductions in private expenditure that will not then go towards paying for college. The fact is that the policies of democratic-socialists are just better. The argument about how we could afford things is flawed from the get go. Corporate journalists, when asking about how to pay for single payer, are basically asking, “How can we afford a far cheaper and more efficient healthcare system?” It’s nonsensical. Ocasio-Cortez has got to point this out every time.

The tax cuts are horrible because they increase inequality in a country already with massive inequality, and because they right wing will ignore how the monetary system actually works (or just don’t know how it works) and will pretend that deficits are problems in an of themselves. They can be if too much money is in the economy, but even with these tax cuts, inflation won’t increase that much because that money isn’t injected into the real economy, because the rich aren’t investing to produce more stuff really (why would they when workers have so little in wages and the government is not allowed to inject demand into the economy) and they aren’t buying enough goods and services with that money to increase demand. It is just going to buy up their own shares, sitting in tax shelters and sloshing around the financial markets.

Paul Ryan at one point told Alan Greenspan that private accounts would be better than the Social Security system, which is insane. His argument was that the government would “run out of money” (impossible) and that the SS system is unsustainable. Greenspan, of all people, shut that logic down.

Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNCZHAQnfGU


#24

Its the Pentagon budget, stupid!


#25

Well there you go. If are are going to claim a person in the YUSA making 25000 pays NO Taxes and fail to add in FICA while in Canada you include that FICA equivalent (CPP and UI) then you are painting a picture that is deceiving.

Again subract CPP and the taxes paid closer to 11 percent on income. If all this paid for was health care then this IN AND Of itself is a bargain.

https://neuvoo.ca/tax-calculator/Alberta-25000

This calculator shows taxes paid province to province . Again here in BC Income tax is about 11 percent on that amount. So if we assume that the US person earning the same pays ZERO taxes and has to buy his health Insurance on the open market and we assume the INCOME taxes paid by the Canadian ONLY pays for Health Care , the Canadian is further ahead. This unless the US Citizen just does not get health care.

I really doubt a family of four can get health care for 230 a month that gives a plan with zero deductibles.

Now to see some REAL waste? The USA spends 1 trillion PLUS a year on its Military. The Prison Population in the USA is over 2.1 million as compared to that of Canada at 40 thousand. That Prison system in the USA uses Private companies each demanding a profit over and above costs.

The USA has more then enough money to pay for this stuff. The Government does not do this not because “They can not afford it” but because they want all monies flowing to the 1 percent.


#26

The roots of why the U.S. “can’t afford” sane policies for the people are explained simply in “War Profiteers and Israel’s Bank” at

Go Alexandria!


#27

Please give reference to you’re post. Nothing about junktex1’s post has been debunked. The Pentagon has not been audited in years.


#28

Wish I was much younger, I think I’m falling in love with this woman. She Rocks.


#29

I’m talking total at year end. My tax situation is pretty simple and i always did my own taxes. I never paid more than 15% in the US. Yes, that includes all the stuff you mentioned. Then again, my state doesn’t have an income tax so i might be spoiled. Lived in California for a while too, they took 10% right off the bat. Don’t even get me started on the sales taxes, gasoline taxes there. No free healthcare either. Not sure where all that money was going.


#30

The rich plundered Greece and then the neoliberal EU put their heel down upon the average Greeks, the little people. They will have to pay. This is going to happen to US.


#31

Medicare for all makes life more fun, more worry free. Free college at any age and level any time will release creative energies and boost productivity. These are practical steps to make the country stronger.

Prejudice against nursing mothers? Policies that promote factory meat farms? Giant gas burning pick up trucks no man can lift a bale of hay over the side. College debt so large it makes sense to emigrate. Capitalists create problems for smart socialists to cure.

Really. Who wants to be part of a mean country? Very few.


#32

The Constitution says you have to be 35 years old to be eligible to serve - you don’t have to be 35 to run. Many third party candidates over the years have been younger


#33

So 24% of your pay was taken for taxes and unspecified other things. What’s your point? In the US that would be considered a great deal and we don’t get health insurance or a sane government. You seem to get both.


#34

Bingo!


#35

Great point! Thx for the sorely-needed giggle.


#36

And too female. And too Hispanic. And too socialist.


#37

Vichy Democrats. Call 'em what they are.


#38

LRX is just peddling right wing talking points again.

Thank you, Joan, for setting things right.


#39

And after this howler, you wonder why I use the term REgressives to describe you guys?

From Briahna who has the strangest middle name…

"Briahna “Intersectionality Includes Class” Gray

“I can’t get over how revolutionary these simple and obvious moral statements sound…”

She’s referring to another carload of freebies that yet another socialist(communist) is promising while at the same time picking some supposed outrageous tax write off.

yawn

Because nothing sounds ground breaking like a worn out ideology that has failed every where and everytime it’s been tried. That same ideology that has resulted in their governments murdering over 100 Million of their UNARMED citizens in the past 100 years.

But don’t pay attention to me and while you’re on your high horse, ignore the real time examples of failed socialist states like the worker’s paradise in Cuba, the toilet paperless, citizens eating zoo animals and setting traps for pigeons in Venezuela or the dreamy, end of socialist(communist) game in N Korea.

But wait…socialism does work, my bad, for TPTB. Those guys that promise paradise mean FOR THEM!!!

Hell, Castro had a personal wealth of $900 Million, 5 residences(palaces) lots of well cared for horses, private hunting reserves and several swell yachts. Plus his cronies were also multi millionaires. So that shit sure was working for him.

Or Chavez, another man of the people! Did you know his daughter is a multi BILLIONAIRE. Knock me over with a feather! Just imagine the business acumen she must possess??? It’s gotta be world cla…oh wait, her wealth couldn’t have anything to do with her dad, could it? Well maybe some hard hitting NYT’s “journalist” will run her down at one of her multi million dollar condos in Miami and ask her. yathink?

Let’s not forget the top of the food chain in N Korea, dining out on the finest lobster, brandy and scotch. But don’t fret folks, the citizens are making do with some real down home cooking using native ingredients like grass, tree bark and even plain old dirt! Man, socialism ROX!!!

Like Ayn Rand said, “You can ignore reality but you can’t ignore the consequences of reality.” That should tattooed on the inside of every REgressive eyelid.

but it won’t


#40

I love how people pushing single payer, like you, tell us all of the money it will save. Yet when a failing and nightmare single payer system like in the UK are cited as examples of an overly staffed managerial bureaucracy(it’s either the 1st or 2nd largest employer in the world-but not with doctors, hmmmm), long waits and endless pages of complaints and excuses, what do you ALWAYS come up with as the reason?

It’s underfunded!!!

And when a single payer system here would reduce the number of people willing to work like slaves, would have long waiting periods for routine surgery and check ups, hospital horror stories and all of the usual crap, you’d fall back on your old tried & true, we just need more money.