Lending credence to the momentum behind Bernie Sanders' grassroots campaign, a poll (pdf) released on Monday finds that Democratic primary voters prefer socialism to capitalism by a wide margin. Nearly two-thirds of those polled also believed that socialism has a beneficial impact on society.
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Why don’t you ask a few?
The thing described as “socialism” in this article is not socialism. It is Attleeian, Rooseveltian-Johnsonian, or Pearsonian liberal social democracy. Unfortunately, as Thomas Wolfe said: “You can’t go home again”. The conditions that created these opportunities - particularly the conditions that led, part by stick (labor activism) and part by carrot (enormous postwar profit opportunities that could tolerate redistribution), the capitalists to tolerate them, no longer exist. The only way forward will be real socialism this time.
True enough. Do you think liberal social democracy could help pave the way to socialism or is it simply an impediment to real change?
I prefer a wealth cap, the best of both worlds.
But what do black Americans think?
Evidently, they by-and-large think arch-neoliberal war hawk and Wall Street puppet Hillary Clinton is just fine. We’ll know soon enough in South Carolina.
I think it is not an impediment; it’s a necessary step.
In contemporary leading industrialized capitalist countries, mainly because of their financial, intelligence, propaganda, police and military powers, liberal social democracy is probably the best that can be hoped for.
Once that is attained, and if free speech abides, a gradual awakening of the working class to the benefits of real socialism should not be out of the question.
It is the staunch Republican, politically ignorant members of the working class that will be last to realize that socialism is in their best interest, and that Republican appeals to the working class are the work of con men.
Consider the gains Bernie has made in the acceptance of democratic socialism (liberal social democracy) in a very short period of time. It’s only a few more steps to the left to have the working class realize the value of genuine socialism.
There are dozens of types of socialism. After reading this article, I don’t think it defined any of them. Americans seem to think that socialism is just a huge welfare system. Americans have a hard time conceiving of an economic system that doesn’t involve free markets and cut-throat competition and gambling as a means of saving for retirement. Very few Americans see causal a link between the economic system and all the social problems. Bernie’s campaign is bringing some legitimacy to the concept of socialism, but it is not helping to pave a road for the future and it is not really educating the public about it. More of that needs to be done or this campaign will amount to nothing. I am convinced that by the end of March it will be clear that Bernie will have no way to win the nomination (mostly because of superdelegates) and his campaign will have been for nothing.
This poll is being used to smear democrats and i really question it’s validity. To be honest i doubt a Socialist can win now, Americans really have a poor opinion of govt and a huge expansion of it and raising taxes is not a winning position, despite my leftist leanings. Losing the election because we are oblivious to some basic realities in American politics is dumb. Polls now are meaningless once the right wing starts focusing on Sanders it will be a landslide.
I like the way the question was phrased. It’s rare for a poll like this not to be blatantly biased. Both choices involved a tradeoff between values (efficiency and competition but some will lose out, vs basics for all but some coercive redistribution). Sure, this is not the only version of socialism, nor the only version of capitalism. The corporate-owned media often say or imply that the first way is the “American way” that a large majority of USA-ers endorse. Good to see the latent support for something else.
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REALLY!!! But, but, but… if it says the respondents were from all demographics doesn’t that mean… Oh? My mistake, I keep presuming that “black Americans” be seen and treated as actual people!
Sorry, carry on; this demonization is not likely to end today anyhow. Btw, you do realize your comment can fairly be posted in the “OXYMORON” entry of any English dictionary, right?
Headline sez: “Most Democrats Prefer Socialism to Capitalism”
No, they do not. They may, perhaps, prefer a more regulated capitalism than the current laissez-faire version practiced in the U.S., but based on their primary election campaign leaning, even that is not clear.
This was basically a right-wing, dog-whistle push poll intended to corral the regressive faithful.
(Karl) Marx insisted that workers must “work for the creation of an independent organization of the workers’ party” and went on to explain:
“Here the proletariat (working class) must take care … that workers’ candidates are nominated everywhere in opposition to bourgeois (capitalist)-democratic candidates. As far as possible they should be League members and their election should be pursued by all possible means. Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled.”
Note: Poster’s editing in parenthesis for clarification. Underlining by poster.
If you figure that out, PLEASE let me know. I’ve been asking that question repeatedly to a quite a number of people whom you’d think should know, but I have yet to receive anything but vague, unsubstantiated answers other than “just because we’ve always supported [the Clintons]” . . . C’est la vie.
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While Senator Sanders has allowed the word “socialism” to be more palatable in the U.S., there is a reason for that … he is not talking about (nor does he believe in) the key cornerstones of Socialism (with a capital “S”). Example: Senator Sanders is not anti-Capitalism.
What those polled want is relief from the exploitation and oppression of Capitalism … regardless of what that relief is called. Let’s be honest, most of the people polled:
Have no real understanding of the key principles of Socialism (according to Marx and Engels),
Do not have the commitment or fortitude to fight the struggle needed to reap the benefits of Socialism.
"Socialism is not a Utopian dream. The road to Socialism will be hard work … more work and struggle than most will be willing to endure. The following selected text from the World Socialist Party of the United States - Declaration of Independence speaks to this point:
"Socialism is no utopian dream, nor the product of imagination and not a mirage of the desert to allure and vanish, but a theory of life in which the humblest individual owns him or herself. The basis of this new cooperative commonwealth is the brotherhood of man, and the idea of brotherhood carries with it toleration and toleration means liberty of thought, liberty of opinion, liberty of action. We do not fear the man or woman that says I don’t agree with you. The only thing in this world we dread is ignorance. Think for yourself. If you oppose us – so be it for we will have infinitely more respect for you than if you support the party without thinking for yourself.
We are not after office, we want socialism. We care little about office except in so far as it represents the triumph of socialism. Socialists are not afflicted with the kind of patriotism which makes the slaves of the nation itch to murder the slaves of another nation in the interest of a plutocracy that wields the same lash over them all. It seems not a little ironic that millions are so patriotic in a country in which the only interest they will have is six feet of dirt in a cemetery.
The World Socialist Party of the United States declares that life, liberty, and happiness for every man, woman, and child are conditioned upon equal political and economic rights. That private ownership of the means of production and distribution of wealth has caused society to split into two distinct classes with conflicting interests, the small possessing class of capitalists or exploiters of the labor force of others and the ever-increasing large dispossessed class of wage-workers, who are deprived of the socially-due share of their product. Our present system divides society into two classes, the “have all” and the “have nothing” class, and that it is the great mass of the people that do all the useful work who belong to the “have nothing. That capitalism, the private ownership of the means of production, is responsible for the insecurity of subsistence, the poverty, misery, and degradation of the ever-growing majority of people. That the same economic forces which have produced and now intensify the capitalist system will compel the adoption of socialism, the common ownership of the means of production for the collective good and welfare, or result in the destruction of civilization."
Source: Socialism or Your Money Back
Jill Stein comes to mind.
Have you ever heard of Black Agenda Report?
