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Neoliberals' Attack on Sanders' GND Plan Is a Clear and Present Danger

lol good ol you tube…taking a studio cut of a song, pasting onto a live film and calling it “live”. I love you tube.


You are right and that is terrible. I fear that, if there’s is a real reason to go to war, it’ll be to save where 20% of our oxygen comes from.


There was finally some oddly good news from the DNC. They actually passed a resolution in support of and welcoming the religiously non-affiliated into the party. https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2019/08/26/democrats-pass-resolution-acknowledging-importance-of-non-religious-americans/. The best news was the xtian right and Faux Noise hair caught on fire as this milk toast resolution proves that Democrats are godless, anti-xtian, Satanist.

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Other species don’t have the rights, often referred to as human rights, that people reading this article by Mr. Atcheson possess. Now, if polar bears, lions, elephants and rhinos, fuzzy cute puppies and kittens, rattlesnakes and Kimono dragons could comment at CD, what do you think they’d tell us?
I’m betting it would be something close to, " Get off my lawn now…mind your own damn business…get your laws and nose out of my bedroom " and a lot worse for those who are blessed with very sensitive ears.
Just guessing, though.

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In the context that were discussing, “human rights” might well be described as human hubris or a hierarchy of what lives have the most value with human beings conveniently on the top. The problem with that equation is that mother nature really does bat last and given our current trajectory, those population numbers of ours are going to go down one way or another. I would hope it would be by our choice but that too is a complicated issue on a planet where resources are unevenly shared.

We are after all, part of this grand web of lives that can take just so much abuse and are intimately and purposefully connected. And we have gone so very far beyond pushing the envelope.

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I actually don’t recall ever seeing posts ‘flagged’ or ‘hidden’ until today. Not sure what the impetus is for having a post flagged in the first place.

I thought the post was petty but don’t understand why it was flagged.
Geez if posts start getting flagged for being petty I’m in deep shit


Wow a Plan that will help save the Planet, contribute to the Improvement of our Health and create Decent Paying Jobs, what could be better or more cost effective?

The Warmongers and the Right Wing Conservatives will always ask: How are We Going to Pay for This?

They usually have a better idea, Lets invade another country it will create good paying jobs at Munition Factories and put people to work Bombing and Killing foreigners overseas.

Bernie of course has the right idea: create a more Habitable Planet and Create good paying Jobs that not only improve the financial status of Millions of people, but also improve the living conditions on Mother Earth.

But Chuck and Nancy think it is more important to continue receiving Bribes/Donations from the Fossil Fuel Industry than dealing with the brilliant ideas of a crazy old man.

BERNIE - 2020


There already is a War. “A WAR against the environment” and it must be fought using means other than conventional warfare which of course we know is one of the biggest pollutants in competition with agricultural industrial complex vs the military industrial complex


On the contrary. Environmental immigrants, species extinctions, resource wars, pollution, global warming, deforestation, inequality, social breakdown, hurricanes and more are environmental problems caused by growing populations exceeding the planet’s carrying capacity, or “overshoot”.

We can argue about causes like religion’s ban on planned parenting, but the results are daily more evident. Overpopulation is a political hot potato, but it is becoming abundantly clear that this taboo must be addressed if we are to solve the rest.


Human beings and their hubris on the top might just be " top of the heap ", for real and very soon, too. A heap isn’t something most would want to be their personal pinnacle, though. The definition of heap, " an untidy collection of things piled up haphazardly. " That’s the planet’s present condition, imo.
However, here we are and my original comment was to acknowledge, and agree, there is a population bomb ticking away on this planet. Just not in the U.S. And then say, that particular situation is moot within the larger contexts of an eve of worldwide destruction, and just a lot more plain, old-fashioned chaos.
Whether or not there are 2-4 more people than recommended, per block, isn’t going to be a big deal in that event, really. Watching humans on our TeeVees eating the remains of a rotting whale carcass, that’s washed up on the coast of California, won’t cause a lot of prolonged consternation among the masses either. For the most part they’ll just be glad they didn’t have to pay for the whale, pretty much.

Here’s my quandary: I read The Population Bomb by Erhlich 3-4 times when I was 17 years old. May have even written the ol’ book report. I also grew up with many WWII veterans who were basically drafted. Who also became battle-hardened grunts who had seen the devastating results of that deadly clash of civilizations.
They didn’t talk that much about their experiences but when they did; well, it wasn’t about how many enemy children, women, the elderly and other non-combatants who’d perished in that huge conflagration. Instead, they talked about the survivors and overcoming potential disastrous situations with the help of their buddies, commanders, family at home keeping the fire burning, etc.
There have already been many millions of casualties from over-population. There will be many more millions, possibly billions, as this potential enveloping chaos on the planet, runs its course.
If indeed nature bats last this is just batting practice, the warm up drills, if you will. The real games are about to begin in earnest though, imo.
I support the Sanders vision of mitigation for this reason. Your, and others, support may differ.
Good luck.


we have a few people who just flag stuff they don’t like.
look for the people least tolerant of differing opinions.

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Which is why I think 1) flagging should not be ascribed to “the community” when it’s just a few jerks, 2) it should not be anonymous 3) there should be some reason given which can be viewed by the community, 4) it should be subject to overriding by community votes, and 5) for members who consistently have a high proportion of their flags overturned, their flagging privileges should be cut down to a limited number per time period until their proportion improves.


this site’s always had a bad reputation for being ban-heavy anyway. most partisan sites are.but your suggestions are good ones if the point was to be fair.

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THis one wasn’t even opinion. Just grammar police

It happens occasionally. Usually it’s because the poster was being excessively profane, abusive to another poster, or threatening physical violence. Rarely a troll deploys it on an opinion they disagree with, but know it’s true and want to discredit the author of it.

I used the LOCE for advanced nuclear plants, which is $200 MW … if you look at Bloomberg or EIA, latest figures for battery storage is about $187 per MWhr.

Sanders call for shutting down the old plants as they come up for renewal. Many of them are beyond their design life already, so the real choice is new nukes or using battery storage to take the intermittency issue off the table.
When I worked for DOE I was an advocate for keeping nukes running because they were low carbon sources – but they’re simply not necessary any longer, and they do have drawbacks. When they fail, they fail catastrophically; and then there’s the waste issue. And now they’re more expensive than safer cleaner alternatives.

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Okay, I guess I could have been clearer. I referred to ‘development work on advanced nuclear now taking place in the U.S.’ in distinction from ‘existing nuclear technology’. There are some nuclear plants (such as AP1000’s and EPR’s) which represent the most advanced versions of existing (generation 3) nuclear, so they are sometime also called advanced nuclear, and I’m guessing these are the kinds of plants from which the LOCE you used was derived. I include those in the larger category of old-tech that we are unlikely to build any more of. I could have referred to generation 4 plants currently in development, but some of the forms of nuclear being developed are not on the gen4 list, so the more generic term “advanced” seemed more inclusive.

Of the various beyond-Gen3(and 3+) designs in development, there are some molten salt reactors in particular which are aiming to substantially reduce the cost of nuclear. Thorcon is trying for a build cost of around a dollar per watt capacity. Moltex (not being developed within the U.S. yet, but already receiving some DOE funding) is trying for an overnight cost of around $2 per watt capacity for a flexible plant that includes energy storage and has a rated plant life of 60 years (with some parts replacements). Even if the overnight and subsequent capital costs amount to $3 per watt, and it runs at only 1/3 capacity factor, that still amortizes out to around $17 per MWh. That would be flexible, on-demand power that could back-up renewable energy sources as well as anything we have now. That price doesn’t include operational costs, but those should be low, and it also doesn’t include revenue from secondary uses of heat, or revenue from fission products and maybe medical isotopes.

The new designs probably won’t be ready for production within ten years, or at best, they’ll just barely be starting by then, so Bernie would have had a perfectly good justification for leaving them out of his ten year plan. But by being explicit that “this plan will stop the building of new nuclear power plants” that is an indiscriminate ban on any form of nuclear, and banning all new nuclear builds is very likely to squelch the development of new kinds of nuclear, some of which have the potential to be valuable in the global fight against fossil carbon–a fight which will almost-certainly still be going on ten years from now. Nuclear development will continue in China, Russia, and India, but U.S.-supported development efforts have the potential to deliver better and cheaper nuclear plants, sooner. That would be better for us, and better for the planet. By including the explicit ban (which was needless with respect to old-tech nuclear) Bernie tramples on development work already underway and forecloses any new development efforts, throws away options before we can even get a chance to see what they can do, he hammers a fracture line dividing environmentalists, he makes enemies he didn’t have to, he provides a legitimate reason to attack his plan, he undercuts James Hansen, and he hands ammunition to those who say the climate alarmists don’t even believe their own rhetoric about this being an emergency.

And oh yeah, molten salt fast reactors are also being developed to eliminate the catastrophic failure modes of old-tech nuclear, and to consume existing nuclear waste. And depleted uranium. And surplus or decommissioned bomb fuel.

I made a snarky comment but I sure didn’t flag it either…