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No People Have an Exclusive on Suffering (or Brutality)


#1

No People Have an Exclusive on Suffering (or Brutality)

Eric Margolis

It’s good and right that we commemorate the mass killing in the Ottoman Empire during World War I of between 500,000 and 1.5 million Armenians.

Many nations now call the slaughter of 1915-1916 as “genocide.” This week the 100th anniversary of the notorious event was observed. Pope Francis and the European parliament called on Turkey to recognize the killings as genocide.


#3

Nicholas you are living in a dream world. There is abundant evidence, on paper, in countless personal stories, even in still-standing bricks and mortar, of the planned and zealously carried out state-sponsored extermination of Europe's Jews. In the US as in Australia the vast majority of deaths of native peoples was due to disease. However culpable colonial governments might have been for many acts of bad behavior, colonial authorities are not responsible for the simple fact that native peoples had no defence against measles. Your argument is at the level of a child who covers his eyes and thinks he is invisible.


#4

You visited the US Holocaust Memorial Museum website and bemoan the fact that there is "no concrete evidence" to back up the claim that 6 million Jews were murdered or persecuted during the Holocaust. Should that evidence be laid out on a museum website? A museum website is an overview of what one may find in a museum. Have you consulted other sources, or perhaps even gone to visit the museum itself? The exhibitions and the archives contain so much more than one can find on their website. 90% of the museum's visitors are non-Jews, and they come from more than 200 countries. Perhaps it's because the museum is not just about one group. The museum's exhibitions and permanent collections reflect an understanding that right up to recent times, people all over the world have suffered murder and persecution simply due to their religious or ethnic identity. Since you have been on the Holocaust Memorial Museum website, no doubt you saw - right on the landing page - the "Statement on the 100th Anniversary of the Armenian Genocide". The landing page also gives prominent mention to exhibitions devoted to the Rwandan Genocide, as well as those of Bosnia and Sudan. There is also a statement on the "Fourth Anniversary of the Syrian Conflict". The permanent collection of the museum contains archives and artifacts documenting the murder and persecution by the Nazis of Poles, Roma (Gypsies), Homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Mentally and Physically Handicapped, Soviet prisoners of war, and other groups targeted during the WWII. At times in the past, this museum and others (most notably the Holocaust Memorial and Tolerance Center of Nassau County (NY) have also featured educational programs on present-day racism and bullying. You bemoan the fact that "many if not most Jews" continue to imply that "their ethnic group has suffered more than any other group in the annals of time". There are approximately 15 million Jews in the world today. How many of these 15 million Jews hold this belief, and where is your evidence to back up your claim? Why would you consider it unusual that when a group suffers an immense tragedy, it tends to be consumed by that tragedy? I went to Leningrad (present-day St. Petersburg, Russia) in 1986 and can fully understand why the WWII Russian blockade survivors whom I befriended might well think their 3 years of indescribable hardship, hunger and death might well eclipse anything ever undergone by any other people. Every family in Leningrad was affected, everyone I met had relatives who died or barely escaped with their lives, and all were scarred forever. Would I ever interpret their intense fixation on the blockade as a belief on their part that their tragedy somehow is more important than the tragedies of others? No. Why would I? Only someone with an agenda would do that.


#5

You know, you remind me of another poster on CD. Gosh, memory fails me. If only I could remember who that was...

http://www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs


#8

You bemoan the fact that "many if not most Jews" continue to imply that "their ethnic group has suffered more than any other group in the annals of time". There are approximately 15 million Jews in the world today. How many of these 15 million Jews hold this belief, and where is your evidence to back up your claim?


#9

Because the evidence is absolutely indisputable and therefore anyone deliberately ignoring it, corrupting it and quibbling with it in the way you and your sources do must not be interested in truth but have an ulterior malicious agenda. As you do. No one is fooled by your shit-stirring nonesense. We can see who you really are, snidely spreading your pernicious views under the blanket guise of a right to freedom of speech. You lie and distort at every other sentence, people are allowed to look at this 'closely' and do, hence the recent discovery linked to below. What they are not allowed to do is maliciously lie and corrupt information as you do.

Secondly, it is downright offensive and hurful to the victims and their relatives to spout this stuff and try and tell them they were imagining it, exaggerating or making it up, rather like the way rape victims are discredited, and to be capable of this callous, inflammatory insensitivity is more evidence that you are, at heart, malicious with an ulterior agenda.

Why don't you just admit it.

I suppose in your world this picture is photoshopped, by way of a time machine.

Finally, an article for you. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087735/British-archaeologist-discovers-fresh-evidence-mass-graves-World-War-Two-death-camp-Treblinka.html You must really be a low specimen when even the right wing Daily Mail and its readers think you are an idiot.


#10

Strangely, one of the most ignored genocides is perhaps possibly also the largest of them all, the genocide of Indian Hindus and other faiths by the invading Muslims which some historians have estimated was many as 80 million. The Hindu Kush gets its name from this period in that translated it means Hindu Slaughter. Afghanistan were it is located was once a Hindu country but all of the non-Muslim occupants were massacred and replaced with Muslims.


#12

Surely you are overlooking the burial artifacts, displays and dioramas in museums the nation over, including such notables as the Smithsonian. Can you really expect more?


#13

Someone living in a fantasy world. The massive documentation, the testimony of the death camp commondants , Himmler's 1943 Poznan speech, The Wannessee conference minutes, Hitler's own words, the physical reality of the still existing camps...none of this is good enough for you. You ARE a holocaust denier..embrace it.


#14

Thank you for this article, Mr. Margolis. I would add two earlier items to the list: the several-centuries sustained pogrom against women of wisdom, branded witches because those independent-minded women challenged the divine right and oppressive rule of church-state patriarchy.

Second, millions were slaughtered all across the Americas by the Dutch, Spanish, French and English.

Today, it's not just the militias that slaughter, the vast majority of trade treaties and corporately devised rules are causing thousands of farmers to commit suicide in India, turning former agrarian families into refugees all across Mexico and Central America, and leaving villages exposed to toxic wastes in rural hamlets of Africa.

Slaughter takes place on a massive scale both with the pistol and with the pen (as enforced brutal policies).

Of course this dastardly record does place into context the favorite enemy-target for several posters: Israel. its aggressive acts, purchased falsely narrowed narratives, and land acquisition are unjust horrors; yet to too many posters Israel is held up as the SOLE entity responsible for such things. In reality, it's the STORY of Patriarchal history... written in blood, sorrow, and tears.

Until Patriarchy and its Mars-ruled armed legions are replaced by a more egalitarian, life-affirming, and balanced societal model, nation after nation will demonstrate its weaknesses. Foremost among them are conquests and imperial acquisitions.


#15

Jews were also subjected to the Inquisition and earlier systemic attempts at their elimination.

I wonder if you posted before under a different screen name? I need to look up who I have in mind... that individual CLUNG to this talking point all the time.

Instead of showing compassion and empathy for the MANY groups that suffer, you are demonstrating anti-Semitism in blaming Jews for their response to the Holocaust and then calling it a dubious claim.

Shame on you... what are you, the Progeny of one of those Nazis imported into the MIC state under Project Paperclip? Sure sounds like it. THAT is where your warped sentiments lie.


#16

Well-argued. You are among that rare group of C.D. posters who actually HAS a soul, a healthy one, at that.


#17

That's too easy. There was a guy who posted EVERY day and said he was part of the Veterans Against War and he OFTEN argued that Holocaust numbers were fake. I have to dig up old archives to remember his then-screen name; but then card-carrying tag team members ALL have used 3 or more sign-on names... as the site published, Ham-Bacon-Eggs was HARDLY the only one to use alternative names. He was just the lowest hanging fruit.

Found it! His posting name was "Erroll" and his material matches--boilerplate style--the "arguments" raised by Nicholas.


#18

Empathy for the poor, misunderstood Hitler. What a guy...


#19

He is WORSE than that. It's this type of false recitation of history that invites calamities to repeat. This guy sounds like one of the Samantha Powers anti-Putin brigade in Ukraine. There, too, Nazis are making a comeback because they have a historical hatred of Jews and in their callous disregard for human beings that don't follow their religious/ethnic mores, a proven capacity to kill with speed and efficiency.

Soldier boys identify with warriors. Hitler was a warrior with NO compassion or empathy, a perfect killing machine. Anyone who makes a case for Hitler obviously identifies with his mentality and THAT is scary since whenever elites cut the fiscal pie tightly into crumbs, a certain percentage of the hungry, angry, disgruntled population can be made to unleash its angst upon a long-established scapegoat group.

Posters like Nicholas grease the skids for THAT. I think it's deliberate.


#21

This is my third attempt to get you to answer a question.
You write that "many if not most Jews" continue to imply that "their ethnic group has suffered more than any other group in the annals of time". Now, there are approximately 15 million Jews in the world today. How many of these 15 million Jews hold this belief, and where is your evidence to back up your claim? What is your source for this statement?


#22

Boy, one glaring omission: Japanese genocidal acts during its occupation of China and other Asian countries.


#23

Why the snide comment about Israel and the US? Margolis must have some clue about the politics of the situation. At least he uses the word genocide correctly.

I suggest everyone ignore the Holocaust denier. Whatever his motivation, nothing will dissuade such dedicated hatred.


#24

Nicholas, Madjenek death camp in poland was captured intact, the gas chamber still stands- with the blue zyclon b stains still on the wall. Over a dozen death camp commanders were caught, and not ONE denied the gassing of millions of Jews. The einzengruppen mass graves still litter Poland and Russia. This is the most thoroughly documented genocide in history. Anyone that knows anything about Hitler should not be surprised that he gave Verbal orders to Himmler, Heydrich, and Goring. They all left a paper trail. If, in spite of all the facts, you stick with this "it never happened" idea then perhaps you can tell me exactly where the 11 million people went? 6 million jews, 5 million others.


#25

What a coincidence. The very day you say there were no gas chambers, French President Francois Hollande is on the landing page of bbc.com posing in front of one at the site of the Natzweiler-Struthof camp in Alsace. 50,000 people were put to death by gas here, mostly French resistance fighters, along with some Jews and gypsies. Zyklon B was not only used during WWII; the Nazis first tried it out and were quite pleased with the results in exterminating 200,000 of their own German Christians - mentally and physically handicapped starting in the mid 1930's. And to the issue of how many Jews per day could be killed by the Nazis: From May 14 to July, 1944, according to figures assembled by Edmund Veesenmayer, the Reich's plenipotentiary in Hungary, and transmitted to Eichmann (and also borne out by Hungarian population figures), an average of 12,000 Hungarian Jews per day were deported from Hungary to Auschwitz, where 90% of the them were immediately put to death. 147 documented trains carried out this deportation, and the crematoria at Auschwitz were so over-burdened with the pace of the killing that large pits were dug and bodies simply burned. 12,000 Jews per day; more than twice the "normal" rate for Auschwitz of 6,000 per day, and that is just one killing center (others were Chelmno, Treblinka I and II, Belzec, Sobibor, Trawniki, etc.). Whether Hitler gave a written order or not is (a) not proven or disproven by what Soviet soldiers did NOT find in Germany, and (b) certainly not relevant to the fact that the Holocaust took place. You would benefit by visiting the US Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. Don't worry - 90% of the visitors are non-Jews; no one will bat an eye.