Originally published at http://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/10/18/no-warren-and-sanders-are-not-same
So, do progressives want the candidate who may be feeling pressured to move to the left or the person whose candidacy is setting the progressive standard?
That pretty much sums up the difference between Sanders and Warren.
I will add the question----how well has “holding their feet to the fire” worked out so far?
Not sure how much warming is already locked in but I believe it is enough that makes the outlook for a biodiverse, healthy ecosphere rather dire.
Getting results will have to wait until the deniers are flushed out of the capital.
I agree. Can we trust Warren to push her progressive policies if she gets the nomination or will we see her tone down her progressivism for the sake of appeasing the neoliberal core of the party and its media backers? Her track record does not support her as someone who will push progressive policies when the chips are down. Hard to ignore how she was MIA when Bernie could have used her support in 2016.
It continues to astound me that so many supposed progressives seem unable to give credit where credit is due to Warren simply because they prefer Bernie. Meanwhile they carelessly disregard the damage they do and ignore the actual help that they are giving Trump in his constant denigration of his opponents. For the first time progressives see two major candidates supporting their views in a presidential election and not just a fringe candidate in it ‘just to bring some progressive ideas into the debate’. Either Bernie or Warren could be the one to oppose Trump in the election but nevertheless, some progressives continue to act as if Warren is not a great candidate. Get real people! Look at how bad Trump really is and then imagine that Biden is the only one to oppose him! Is Biden a progressive like Warren is?
Enough of the cheap shots and low blows already. It isn’t a game and literally our democracy hangs in the balance against the oligarchy. Were it not for Bernie, Warren would be a spectacular progressive candidate on her own merits. Years ago Bernie supported Medicare for All only three years before Warren did. This author writes that over two decades ago that Warren was once a republican - two decades ago! It’s as if no one can learn and grow? As if no one can become wiser or smarter after seeing the facts? Why bother trying to convince people to support progressive values if when they do change their views you act as if that doesn’t count even twenty years later. That’s twenty three years of being progressive remember!
Give credit where credit is due progressives and stop giving ammo to republicans against either of the two progressives with a chance of winning in the race. Otherwise we may all regret it.
To me, the distinction across the d-party smorgasbord of candidates boils down to who is already compromising and who isn’t.
I mean, damn, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Biden, Harris et al are already using Repub taking points to justify their corporate-friendly positions. And by the very nature of her weasel word approach, Warren is pre-compromising with an amorphous range of contingencies. Do the Dems really want to nominate a candidate already doing the Repub’s job for them?
A prime example: Everyone but Bernie backpedaling to greater or lesser extents away from the notion that ObamaCare was a transitional step toward single payer. WTF happened to that concept, Joe? Amy?
No, they not “the same”, and their histories and political moral compass’ are quite different. That said, the DINO clinton/obama “centrist” (corporatist) camp is undermining the 2020 election more than most foreign “interference” or sabotage
Now enter the queen bitch of the universe, the red queen, who is fomenting for the DINO DP establishment against progressives, our issues and any third-party candidate! A slap in the face that must be called-out in the starkest terms, absent any "kid-gloves!
Clinton’s baseless BS assertions re third party shills must be refuted and denounced as she personally as a fraud and liar should be!
" For starters, the former Democratic presidential candidate (hillary) suggested that Russia had compromising information, or kompromat, on Trump .
"Clinton also said she thought Jill Stein , the Green Party’s 2016 presidential nominee, was a Russian asset: “Yeah, she’s a Russian asset – I mean, totally. They know they can’t win without a third-party candidate. So I don’t know who it’s going to be, but I will guarantee you they will have a vigorous third-party challenge in the key states that they most needed.”
"Clinton did offer a suggestion of who **the next “Russian asset” might be: Democratic presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard.
Clinton said in an apparent reference to the Hawaii congresswoman: “I’m not making any predictions, but I think they’ve got their eye on someone who’s currently in the Democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third-party candidate. She’s the favorite of the Russians. They have a bunch of sites and bots and other ways of supporting her so far.”
The sabotage and mud-slinging by that feckless cow is the threat to a re-energized progressive/Dem/Indy electorate! Likely her crime family is linked to trumps in ways we don’t fully understand - beyond ordinary corruption and greed-driven political ambitions, as well as the corrupt “Clinton Foundation” and money-laundering!
Source of this info here:
Warren supported the Republicans as a fully formed Harvard professor, when the far right was destroying unions, used racism to forward their cause, and were busy attacking social programs and setting Central America on fire. She supported that, well into her 40’s, and when she switched to the other party it was a very neoliberal party. It cannot be said that the damn Democratic Party of around 2000 or whatever was a left wing party and a friend to working people. And she waffles on everything from single payer to taking large donor money. On foreign policy, she is horrible, not that her relatively well off supporters care much. She’s a mildly progressive technocrat, and her lack of radical inclination and her wanting to be a Democratic Party team player, as well as strongly tying herself ideologically co capitalism, matters. I fully believe that if Harris didn’t collapse, that Warren wouldn’t be where she is. A decent portion of her support is based around identity politics and comes across as being very similar to the privileged and entitled Clinton supporters last time around. I am sick of reforming a system that cannot possibly solve our largest societal problems. You cannot regulate a broken system to work in ways it cannot. Bernie’s plans are not only better (and often not as needlessly complex), they are go much further, and we need to go much further. We have to push whoever we elect, but if Bernie is lucky enough to win, he will not need to be pushed on things she will. The media and the large donors can see the clear differences between the two, many people that identify with the left, support Bernie’s program and are aligned with him ideologically, shouldn’t be as dense and logically unreachable than the corporate media even is. Even they can see the obvious differences, it is that obvious.
“There is one thing Warren has going for her over Sanders: She’s far more charismatic than he is. At a recent LGBTQ event in Los Angeles, Warren won over the crowd when she was asked how she might respond to a supporter who claimed that marriage should be between one man and one woman. She replied, “I’m going to assume it is a guy who said that. And I’m going to say, ‘Well, then just marry one woman. I’m cool with that.’” With the perfect timing of an improv artist, she waited for applause and added, “Assuming you can find one”—which of course resulted in even more applause.”
Oh, HELL YES! Because of that “charismatic quip” I am definitely going to dump my support for Bernie and go with this fun-loving person who makes June Cleaver look like a gangsta!
You’ve overlooked one thing on this topic IMHO, Trump has already smacked down Warren over the Native American issue. He will frustrate her, irritate her, and chew her up and spit her out in a one-on-one debate, regardless of the topics being debated.
Sanders on the other hand, grew up in NY during a time when people there were constantly arguing with each other in the streets everyday. Back then it was stick up for yourself, or get taken advantage of or worse, Warren has never dealt with that kind of environment.
Lastly, I’m curious how you equate someone who recently comments she is “a capitalist to my bones” as being progressive?
Bernie has supported single payer for a helluva lot longer than 3 years.
He was an original co-sponsor of HR 676 in 2004.
He introduced a version of his current MFA bill in the senate in 2013.
In a word: BULLSHIT!
i love Liz - she would be the most progressive prez candidate in modern history, to my knowledge - but Somali’s on the money: Bernie’s the Original. With him, i KNOW he won’t pull an Obama and move to the right drastically after the (s)election; Liz, im confident in, but nowhere near as certain.
…and until the republican are flushed out of the Democratic Party.
LOL and just for fun - post that over at HufPo or Alternet and see what happens! ; - )
The DNC Clintonistas are heavy there today
Great Bernie video ad.
Sanders voting record on military spending, crime, and other issues fails your purity test. This is a bogus discussion, there’s no more clarity about what would actually happen with a Sanders administration than a Warren administration.
As always, the results will depend on more than one person, a good outcome will require the whole caucus to commit to good legislation. Does Sanders have the ability to move the House and Senate left (assuming the Dems even retake the latter)? You and i don’t know that.
Warren is at least putting her midlife center left conversion on the table. Sanders refuses to really acknowledge the problems with his past record. His votes in the 90s would be used as ammunition against Warren by this writer had Warren been the one who cast them. Support Sanders, fine.
I would be happy with either choice in the general, and either should defeat Trump handily. But this litmus test isn’t even accurate, and definitely unhelpful. We’re in a crisis. Sanders is sounding repetitive and not particularly insightful to me personally, while Warren’s medium blog reveals a coherent and definitely left plan for reform. The idea that she’s disqualified because she felt pressure to move left is stupid… isn’t that what activism is all about, moving people from received positions to engaged ones? Please dear god don’t let’s shoot each other this time.
I don’t think the author is bashing Warren, but merely pointing out that she is not nearly as progressive as Sanders. If either candidate got the Democratic nomination (and that is a HUGE ‘if’!), they would both beat Trump’s but I can’t see either one of them getting any progressive legislation passed in a Congress, Senate and Supreme Court that is packed with corporate sycophants. Besides, if Bernie is chosen by the DNC, he would choose Warren as his VP most likely anyway!