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'One of the Best Cases For Single Payer I've Ever Seen': Watch Dr. Take on Skeptics at Fox

'One of the Best Cases For Single Payer I've Ever Seen': Watch Dr. Take on Skeptics at Fox

Jessica Corbett, staff writer

Amid mounting excitement over new Medicare for All legislation unveiled this week, Dr. Adam Gaffney took on a panel of single-payer skeptics at Fox Business Network on Friday, delivering a widely celebrated argument for why U.S. lawmakers need to heed the growing public demands to replace private for-profit health insurance with a national single-payer system.

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Thank you Dr. Gaffney. My son spent 1 week in a German hospital. Excellent care, NO bill.

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Great job. That is how you beat back their bullshit talking points. The way to respond to the cost of single payer is to clarify that it doesn’t entail an additional cost and to compare it to the cost of the present system. To immediately jump to, well, we spend tons on war and other things, why not provide care for our people without addressing that, is a huge error. No single payer system has the inefficiencies that this system has, anywhere near it. No system costs anywhere near as much as this system, on a per capita basis or in regards to the percentage of GDP we spend on healthcare. As I have said on this site before, the 2010 WHO study shows that administrative overhead around the world, in poor, rich and middle income countries, is three times higher than public systems.

The overhead is always higher in private insurance than traditional Medicare, and when it comes to fraud within Medicaid and Medicare, what percentage of that is attributed back to private interests? I mean, we have a healthcare system that profits off of denying healthcare. Listen to those Nixon tapes when he discusses Kaiser’s idea of profiting off of denying care. Nixon had a woody for that, thought it was a great idea to make a profit off of denying others the healthcare that they need. That results in up to 45,000 a year dying because they lack care (that cost isn’t included in the cost of this system), and we pay more than anyone for drugs, which is in part because we don’t have the government using its economies of scale to bargain down the price of drugs.

Think of this from a political economic perspective. Right now, because your healthcare is tied to your job, your employer has lots of power over you. We suffer from huge power differentials between capital and labor. Imagine what single payer would do to strengthen people relative to their employer. Then think about the elimination of bankruptcies, and having to spend so much time shopping for plans, since we irrationally treat this as a commodity.

Jake Tapper and the hacks at CNN should have him on (they won’t, he’d explode their bullshit too).

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Unfortunately, the repugs who listen to Fox all the time will do what some of the hosts did - flat out ignore the facts and keep returning to already debunked arguments. No ‘moral argument’ will sway those who refuse to think for themselves.

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We all must make a choice going forward in our lives.

Do we politically support those who value money, or do we support those who value life?

"People, Planet, and Peace before Profit."

This choice is ours. Choose wisely. Don’t listen to those who have lied to us for many decades.

Blind allegiance to a political party is just that.

Being blind.

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One of my favorite lines from the pundits (paraphrasing): “…the United Kingdom - a country I know VERY well because my wife spent a MONTH there…”

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The polls don’t show that actually, at least not as much as you would think. This is one issue where propaganda cannot overtake people’s actual reality. Things like global warming are abstract in some ways, or at least are not as readily apparent to people too lazy to look into things. The actual impact of this system is too real. I know this is anecdotal, but I have a libertarian friend. She is a big Rand person, yuk, I know. Anarcho capitalist type, totally adverse to data and actual economic history, but whatever. Most people have some form of religion, what can you do. She told me recently that she is in favor of single payer. She concluded that it would expand economic freedom. I though, shit, even a Rand supporter gets what flies over the head of people like Pelosi.

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Joan –

What ways – other than via political parties/votes – can ordinary citizens help the
push for Medicare4All? Any suggestions?

Presume that the Physicians for National Health Care Program/Dr. Adam Gaffney’s group
accepts donations.

And that constant checking on our members of Congress will help –

IMO, it would also help to see citizens expressing this support from citizen to citizen, as well.

We are in such “grave” and desperate need here of Medicare that it should be a National
Emergency – campaigns in our streets and neighborhoods for it.

And thank you for your post and information.

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I am involved in politics, like a lot of others here, but I don’t have tons to say in regards to organizing strategies. What I would do is to encourage others to study not only the data, but to understand why single payer is more efficient. Complexity and institutional inefficiencies make private health insurance more expensive and less efficient. I would study these responses and use them as talking points. The big one is cost. If someone brings up single payer and throws out some big price tag, there is a really simple response. Ask about the cost of the present system over the same time frame. Cause just throwing out some big number on the cost of single payer is almost like looking at one side of a double entry. An accountant couldn’t operate that way and avoid lawsuits. If they bring up tax increases (beyond the MMT stuff that argues against the need to tax in order for the government to spend), bring up again the reduction in out of pocket expenditures, that they wouldn’t have job lock. No more bankruptcies, no more time spent figuring out whether to have this or that plan. That is over with single payer.

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I would also keep this in mind when people throw out any polling by Kaiser on single payer. I mean if you were in some debate with someone on unions, and you cited a poll done by the AFL-CIO showing that unions are amazing, I think that the person debating you would be correct to question how objective the poll was. You would have to take into account any bias in regards to how questions were asked and framed. For example, people will cite polls by Kaiser showing that support for single payer declines when “more facts are known”. But, what facts? For example, if you want single payer to be revenue neutral, or at least near it, and that would require tax increases, people point to polling showing that support declines when that is factored in. But how many of those polls ask a more accurate question, since that is a manipulative way of framing the question? Single payer would likely result in tax increases, but this and that study show that the reduction in the out of pocket expenditures would more than offset that tax increase for most people. In other words, you could get comprehensive healthcare while spending less, even if you pay more in taxes. Would you support single payer if it saved you money personally? Who the hell would say no? And that is far more accurate than just asking about a tax increase, which is once again just looking at one side of a double entry. How many Kaiser polls talk about the fact that 45,000 people die each year, or up to 45,000, and that this isn’t found in single payer systems. Do they ask, if single payer would make it so that 45,000 of your fellow Americans won’t die from lack of care, would you be more likely to support it? Or, how about asking people, if single payer would save the country trillions of dollars, which every credible study of this shows it would (every single payer system also does cost less), would you be more likely to support it? Yeah, if you go more into the facts, support for single payer would increase, but I haven’t seen many polls that bring in THOSE facts. It is always a dishonest right wing framing, like bringing up taxes but not the reduction in out of pocket expenditures, that results in support dropping off. If we gave people all of the data, support would not decline, it would be ridiculous to think it would. However, if you cherry pick the data and manipulate people like Kaiser does, then yes, you could see some drop off in support. This applies to every issue.

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The reality is simple: On a regular basis, my wife’s employer pays less of our health insurance, while we pay more. And the rather generous (meaning expensive) plan we opt into still doesn’t cover everything, meaning we have co-pays for medical, dental, vision.

I mean, damn, in this country we’re considered ‘fortunate.’

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That uneducated Brick of a commentator saying “Americans dont know any better” She needs to FIRED…

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I’m an RN, and I have spent most of my career working as a hospice nurse. I cannot tell you how many young patients (30’s, 40’s, 50’s) I’ve seen over the years with end-stage cancers (and other diseases), who did not go to a doctor the first time they felt a lump or experienced other early symptoms, either because they lacked insurance or were underinsured to the point of being unable to afford MRIs, CT Scans, and other diagnostic tests. By the time I see them, it is entirely too late of course. This, only in the wealthiest country in this history of the world, of course.

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Well , the bill went to me and all the other people that pay for the system, Germany is an insurance based system where the amount of your premium is based on your income and the costs that a hospital , doctor , clinic can charge is controlled by the government.

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Just like the bill for the emergency room visits that treat the uninsured in this country.

Perhaps tangentially, I notice that this article celebrates a moment of sanity in a bubble of mass delusion. The presentation is wonderful; the argument sound, but the FOX bubble won’t change cuz they got that old-time religious knack for ignoring anything that don’t line up right with what they already been told is true. Still and all, well done Dr. Gaffney.

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We tried to address that by dumping patients in the street, but it was bad optics.

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I have been angry with Bernie all through the last campaign because he seldom made the cost difference an issue. The Dr’s spot on description should have been, and should be the way it is presented EVERY time it is brought up.

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It’s very difficult for me to watch ANYTHING on Fox THey are such fascist A-holes

Republicans are suicidal

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U know what? I’m sick and tired of reading article after article debating all of the bullshit reasons why They don’t want to give Us the same Heathcare that Congress Members and Rich people have! End of discussion. How many millions have died already and how many more will it take for All of us to have what should be our Right …with no exceptions??? What are we gonna do about it? Allow Them to keep killing us? Fuck FOX NEWS! Fuck Congress too!!!

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