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'Out of an Abundance of Caution,' Says Bernie Sanders, 'We Should Expand Medicare to Cover Everyone in America'

That is exactly what the House and the Senate proposal do: no premium, no deductible, no co-pay and both bills include dental and co-pay. Read them.


Did you know we already have that in my state. The co-pay and deductive charges are dependent on income.

However, it isn’t that there are no charges or fees, but they are charged a different way.

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Yes, I have been a long time activist as in organizing for this. I have stepped back for now due to being in constant physical pain but I continue to advocate in every situation that presents itself which included a rumble today.


I found if you can reduce inflammation it helps reduce pain. Not specific to any one source, I drink garlic water. A clove or two soaked in a glass of water really helps.

I would be interested on your take on wealth taxes which I don’t believe I’ve read before. I am for more steeply progressive income taxes, keeping the one significant wealth tax we have (property) and even making that progressive instead of flat, but I don’t support the idea that Sanders is proposing that you can be assessed on the value of your stock portfolio and be expected to pay a percentage of that each year EVEN if you don’t sell any stock. Hell, it could crash a month later or a year later and if you never sold any stock, you never saw any of that money. That is why there is a concept of capital gains and taxing that makes sense (and I support taxing capital gains at income tax levels). But Sanders seems like an absolute lunatic harping about how much money in stock value any billionaire has made during the pandemic. I don’t give a fuck about that until they sell the stock. Why isn’t this painfully obvious to everyone? Tax income. Or if you want to tax wealth, tax actual physical assets like land or yachts or whatever, but not stock value.

And in case anybody doesn’t know - I’m 100% behind M4A, it’s just that I’d support it with non-wealth taxes. I don’t mind running short term deficits as we get it rolling but in the long run, I think we should target an amount of input taxes to match output payments. So I’m ok with parts of MMT, though I don’t think you can indefinitely inject arbitrarily large amounts of money and not have some issues (I’m not saying any MMT advocates are promoting this - I’ve heard Kelton on a podcast, but have read very little).

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“The excellent care you received at Walter Reed …”

What excellent care he received at Walter Reed? How does he know that the thug received “excellent care” at Walter Reed, versus complicit medical doctors who were ordered to go along with a hoax that the thug allegedly has COVID? According to renowned and credible medical doctors, one is NOT “without symptoms” and “stable” and “feeling great” days after testing positive for COVID, which makes thinking people think this is all a hoax for sympathy votes and more attention. Yet the masses have bought into it, especially the corporate media and Establishment with their sickening “speedy recovery” and “wish you well.” Yes, one wishes “the greatest threat to democracy” a speedy recovery (think: Biden).

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Our entire thinking about medical care in US needs “fixing” –
Remember the Nixon War on Cancer – what year was that?

Anyone look at pollution or chemicals or wars or dairy products as a cause
for Cancer – or now vaccines which seem to be creating adult diseases in children -
like arthritis and diabetes.

We have systems based in CURES that never come – because we refuse to actually
track the causes of disease – we merely study the symptoms create expensive
medicines to control them – medicines with hundreds of side effects – and side effects
they find out after the trial tests that they don’t even have to tell you about.
PLUS vaccines do not pass the same tests for safety that Big Pharma’s prescription
medicines somehow pass.

But the difference between ZERO for 20-40 million Americans and 80-20% is still better
than having this many Americans uncovered. And we don’t even know when we may
yet get hit with a second virus – or a third. This is part of Global Warming and it’s based
in pollution and destruction of animal-habitat.

Not that I don’t agree with you that this GAP between 80% and 100% should even exist –
it shouldn’t –





as the corporate Democrats are the willing pawns of the corporations financing their election bids–I only expect more corporate control over our lives- and we can all see where that has left us–in fact the two big accomplishments of the Obama/Biden administration were a profit protection plan for health care corporations and a bail out of an industry that is a major part of the continued collapse of our ecosystems–the Dems could have used the collapse of that industry to make the change to an electrically powered transportation system(as many of us advocated for–repeatedly) but chose to double down on the planet destroyers instead–the same anti-science actions by what the party that has refused to do -to this very day-the refusal to listen to the science

the Republicans are not the only science denying fools who would be our leaders

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I, too, have bashed Bernie for his tactics in running against Biden, but in hindsight of seeing what extents the DP (Obama, DNC, media) went to to orchestrate the corrupt fiasco of the primaries, along with seeing how much Trump and the GOP do what they want to control voting and elections, I now realize that it did not matter what Bernie did. They still would have found a way to deny him the nomination; it was NEVER GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN. Nothing he could do would have brought about another result. If he had gone scorched earth, they still would have found a way to give the nomination to someone else and he would then have no influence in the DP as they ostracized him. I don’t like it but that is the reality of the situation he faced.


Right. The notion that the DP went to all the trouble to deep six Bernie and install Biden, who was running a distant fourth before Super Tuesday, and that we will then be able to move the party left after Biden is elected, is a pipe dream. The donors, who control everything in the USA political theater, are not going to let their election rigging go to waste and submit to public pressure to move left. Ain’t gonna happen.


Meanwhile , even as Bernie attacks Trump for his stand on Medicare for all , Joe Biden throws Bernie under the bus by claiming he beat the Socialist . He is defending himself against Trump barbs about the left and “Socialism” by attacking Bernie and claiming that he owes nothing to the left in his party and will not be beholden to them.

The Policies of the two are pretty well the same with one Joes only reasons for people being to vote for him being “I am not Trump and I am not Bernie”. How on earth can Bernie condemn Trumps stand on M4A when it the same as Biden who he claims to support?

To those on the left or deeming themselves as Progressives, Joe Biden is rubbing your noses in it now as we speak. He treats the left with utter disdain even as he feels that the vote of the left belongs to him. This is where LOTE has gotten you.


Why should anyone be able to own anyone else’s means of making their living?

I was just about to write much the same thing as you did here. How indeed can Sanders criticize Trump for holding a position Biden also holds. The hypocrisy stinks like a dead carp.

Are you asking why should we consider a system that allows for privately owned companies when we could have a system where all economic activity is either done at the level of individuals owning everything (eg small family farms but not hiring any farm workers), worker coops, or government run large companies?

Though I want to move in the direction of government run activity in multiple fronts like banking, energy delivery, being the single health care payer, etc., I am not a socialist to the level where I want to rapidly convert all private property outside of a modest residence and possessions that reside there into government owned and run activity. I don’t think it will work that well and I think the number of people who actually want that in the US is less than 5% making it impossible to consider. Better to show success in limited areas like health care and banking before you propose an absolutely massive shift in human society organization.

actually current payments to hospital, doctors, etc is higher under Medicare and Medicaid pays less than Medicare…

IF everyone in the US had “Medicare for All” ie universal medical care – (don’t get stuck on the word “Medicare” ) – and get rid of For Profit Health Insurance (all of whom are on the Stock Market - and pay dividends) with crappy coverage It will cost WAY Less AND we will get total coverage and with less out of pocket – AND the cost to the government is less than now!! Think of it like your car insurance – you are in a risk pool… more peephole in your insurance :pool" the more the cost is spread out.

It really IS a non-brainer…


Almost. I’m asking why (e.g.) I, acting solely in what I perceive to be my own best interests, should have the power to put you out of work.

Why should the system not be one in which there are only 2 forms of business:

A. Sole (or immediate family) ownership, employment, and control. As long as the only workers are immediate family, it’s good.

B. Employee-owned and controlled if the entrepreneur wants to build an empire. Once the first non-immediate-relative is hired, the company automatically converts to a co-op/collaborative in which equal risk is compensated by equal ownership and work is compensated by money. Outsiders couldn’t own a piece, but everyone working there would own one.

Lots of people dream of being able to live off the labor of others, but why should they be allowed to?

So I guess that pretty much eliminates impeaching Biden if he vetoes MFA after it is passed by a Democratically controlled House and Senate?
Fascists gonna be Fascist.

So similar to what I said but you think worker owned co-ops can be the catch all even for very large complicated businesses making complicated products and we don’t need the third category of government run companies.

As I said, I’m not that revolutionary, but if you want to convince people like me, I suppose I need to see data on success stories of co-ops and if they look like they can translate to large scale.

Why wouldn’t they be able to? As Ameringer pointed out, Capitalism is all about separating ownership from work. Those who work do not own, and those who own need not work. But that’s the only real difference.

As far as a worker-owned company not being able to finance massive projects, that again is a separate problem from whether the ones who do the work also make the decisions. The government finances the MCI even though they don’t own it, so what difference could it make to have the ownership vested in the many instead of the few?.

It’s not hard to imagine worker-owned companies hiring the best management they could find. The difference would be that the management would just be employees with one share of stock each, just like the janitors.

They’d perhaps be paid a lot of money, but in a world where they could not use the excess money to buy the right to live off of other people’s labor, all those piles of $100 bills would lose their attraction after awhile. Once you own more houses than you can visit in a year, and more yachts and sports cars and private jets than you can use and more artwork than you can see in your mind’s eye, what’s the point of trying to own more such shiny objects?