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PA Teachers Lead Fight Against "Reckless" Bill Allowing Guns in Schools


#1

PA Teachers Lead Fight Against "Reckless" Bill Allowing Guns in Schools

Julia Conley, staff writer

The gun control advocacy group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America is leading the fight against a newly-passed bill in the Pennsylvania State Senate, which would allow teachers and other employees to carry firearms in public schools.


#2

"Same at conventions held by the National Rifle Association"

Ummm, no...

BTW, carrying will not be mandatory, but will be allowed, so if teachers don't agree with it, i guess they won't be carrying guns in school. So it will be same as before.


#3

How is this "reckless"? In order to have a firearm, the individual teacher needs to have a license to carry. To get such a license, issued by the Chief of Police.

While an armed teacher might not have been able to stop the death of the child in SC that Diane Ravitch cites, they might have been able to reduce the toll in Sandy Hook, or Columbine. There have been 130 school shootings since Columbine. If a teacher with a concealed carry permit stopped one of them - isn't that a "win"? Especially when we see that fewer than 3% of gun crimes are committed by LTC holders.


#4

Guns scare me. Guns say loud and clear, "No, we won't negotiate. We won't have a civil
conversation." Guns speak loud and clear to any aggrieved nutcasel "Now I am powerful.
I will show anybody who disagrees who's boss here."
Guns said to demented Dylann Roof, influenced by white supremacy hate, " I thinkk I'll go
into a peaceful churvh and murder 9 worshippers." Guns shout to murderers @ Sandy
Hook, " Let's go kill some little kids." THIS IS MADNESS. This is GREED fomenting HATE.
I am sick and tired of the 2nd Amendment LIE. I would be happy to see all guns melted
down into a statue of the dove of peace.


#5

PS I taught HS & college English for almost 25 years. Not NO but HELL NO


#6

With all that was 'on my plate' encouraging a roomful of teenagers to read
critically, to write with some coherence, to understand and to participate, how in holy hell
could I have also been prepared to shoot to kill some nutcase who suddenly attacked my
school? NO and NO and HELL NO. NO GUNS IN SCHOOLS. PERIOD.L


#7

I wonder what message that will send to kids? Maybe that's the point though?


#8

First of all, no one is requiring teacher to be armed in the classroom. Therefore, if guns scare you, you're under no obligation to carry one.

Guns didn't "say" anything to Dylann Roof or any other killer. Guns don't speak. However, a teacher who isn't scared of guns might be in a position to react and stop a shooter. The madness of the shooter exists whether or not he has a gun. Just because you are unprepared to defend your students, why should some other teacher be prevented from protecting them?

Your feelings aren't going to make the problem disappear.


#9

More guns? By god that must be the answer, we just don't have enough per capita yet, do we? Oh armed guard in schools?
That worked out great in Columbine:

"In 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 15 people and wounded 23 more at Columbine High School. The destruction occurred despite the fact that there was an armed security officer at the school and another one nearby — exactly what LaPierre argued on Friday was the answer to stopping “a bad guy with a gun.”

Deputy Neil Gardner was a 15-year veteran of the Jefferson County, Colo., Sheriff’s Office assigned as the uniformed officer at Columbine. According to an account compiled by the police department, Gardner fired on Harris but was unsuccessful in stopping him."


#10

No, not "more guns". Simply allowing someone who already has one, and knows how to use it,

Is the armed teacher (or security guard) always going to be able to stop a shooter? Probably not. But if you don't have that armed teacher or security guard, the odds are much closer to 100% that they won't be able to stop the shooter.


#11

Reality bites, does it not? Multitudes of police officers, training in hand to hand, with extensive self defense training and shooting under stress training, have had thir guns stolen right out of their holsters and the gun used on them.

Do you own a gun? Have you shot one? I have shot plenty, most recently 12 gauge out in the country just a week ago (targets--I do not kill things). I have shot from bb guns in 4th grade to 30-30, M-16, 22 pistols and rifles, 38's, 9mm, other various rifles, bows, crossbows, shotguns, and forgetting others. And I am a pretty good shot.

Have you ever been a public school or college teacher? I have done both, with over 10 years experience.

I am just thinking, even with my gun training what would happen if I , the teacher, confronted a shooter, who was entering from the door at rear corner of room, a very common layout.

If was able to with lighting speed and accuracy, to fire at this shooter who possibly just announced his presence with the rapid repeat firing of an AK-47, showering bodies across the room with bullets, fragments of kids brains and exploding bodies coursing through the air--well, first of all what is my handgun going to do compared to that.

Oh, and just another little question, while holding a six shooter, or 9mm or whatever, crouching behind a wooden desk being pummeled by rifle fire (bullets tend to just blow through wood desks, btw I am also a woodworker).
what is the likely hood that I could hit this evasive Rambo shooter in full body armor (or not), all the while completely avoiding hitting any student's heads? This is called crossfire. In battle, a form of "friendly fire."

Now if military, experienced, top flight in their specialties, can accidentally kill each other, what is the chance a teacher, with about 1/1000ths the training in offense/self defense with a gun, is not going to accidentally shoot any of those student bobbing heads between she and the shooter?.

(This whole idea is so f*&CKing insane, I can't believe I am wasting my time with this.)

If you are familiar the myths of the Wild West, you would know it wasn't that wild. In most towns, all armed men gave up weapons, checked them in to the Sheriff upon entering town, check out when leaving.

And many killed in those glorious gunfights were killed by friendly fire.

A Clint Eastwood cowboy flick does not reflect western reality.

Complete school security, safer than any armed teachers/ guards, can be achieved with current technology, and then nobody would be even able to enter a school with a gun.

Would that not be better?, keeping the shooter outside from the start, an impenetrable virtual electronically secured/controlled/automated fortress? or do we instead wish to engage with 30 students, or an entire cafeteria full of hundreds, between us and the shooter?

Let's please get real, and dispense with the NRA minded "good guy with a gun myth". Clint/Rambo here to save the day--OK?

No let's all get back on the playground, and play nicely.


#12

I love people who make assumptions.

  1. I own guns, and have shot them for more than 50 years.
  2. Both my spouse and I have been teachers.

Did I say it was the be all and end all solution? No. What I've said, and maintain, is that the incremental risk of allowing a teacher to be armed is minimal, and that it could save lives. You notion of always preventing someone from entering a school with a gun is fantasy, unless you are planning on having screening that exceeds the TSA at airports by some large factor. Conversely, there are examples where someone with a gun has prevented or stopped mass shootings. You can google them yourself.


#13

You are out of your fucking mind.


#14

Here in MN, the rule has always been that it's up the school principle. My state mandated concealed carry class was taught by a high school teacher who carries in a school where it's allowed.
Can't claim that teacher and staff carry has saved anyone, but it's damn sure never hurt anyone.


#15

I agree with you. Having a single armed security guard for a sprawling high school campus IS pretty poor security.


#16

What a thoughtful rebuttal.
I'm sure that the actual teacher with actual firearm experience has been shown the light by your piercing, insightful, well reasoned argument.


#17

Thank you. Anyone who thinks all that crap through all that far--about what would happen if, when, how, from what angle. blah blah, about an armed student coming into his class is not a teacher I'd want to be around. I'm working for a K-12 credential RIGHT NOW. And even giving all that thought to it is NUTS. Think long and hard about it. It's a waste of thought. Period.


#18

Thanks for the brilliant additional to the conversation.


#19

I shudder to think that you're going to be allowed to teach impressionable minds. Please consider another field where you won't do so much damage to the next generation.


#20

It is not surprising, but still very unfortunate to see so many foolish rants about guns and how they will help to curb gun violence. I hate to think a child of mine or a grandchild would be in a classroom with a teacher who carries. Any situation becomes more extreme when a gun is an option. The idea that a teacher could think clearly enough in an instant, when all of their students' lives are suddenly at risk, and instead of locking down and making those children safe from a violent person, that teacher would be spending that next few seconds in pulling out a gun and fumbling to fire back, it is just insane. The idea is just insane. These ideas are from people who've never faced down or been threatened by a lunatic with a gun.