The latest call for a youth uprising against global capitalism came not from grassroots groups, but from the leader of the Catholic Church, who on Sunday gave a rousing speech during which he told a crowd of young people in Paraguay that it is their time to "make a mess."
God bless this Pope.
I can hardly believe that I am hearing a reformer Pope in my lifetime. How utterly extraordinary that here is a man who truly believes that you can serve God or mammon but not both!
I am so enthused by this person of faith. God verses Capitalism? Let’s ask Jesus for His opinion.
Seriously to hear this anti-capitalism message being said by the Pope… uber wow!!! Make a mess? Can you believe… again? My my… what a surprise. Real faith in God and people… and not the dollar.
God bless this Pope.
“We don’t want young weaklings. We do not want young people who tire quickly, who live life worn out with faces of boredom. We want youths with hope and strength,”: A hell of a good line! Let’s stand in solidarity with our youth to make one great big mess. Total, non cooperation for Mother Earth and against oppression.
I know it worries me. Everyday he speaks is a gift. Our poor planet and our suffering species. It is stunning truly stunning to hear a reformer Pope take on the ‘principalities and powers of the world’.
God bless this Pope because he is a blessing for us.
He said for them to make a mess and then fix that mess. Not just make a mess. He wants to fix the problems … that’s the goal but he knows that the game is rigged by power and money.
Nevertheless his ultimate point is to fix the world’s problems.
Hooray for the Pope! This call and the long statement on the environment are excellent and necessary steps. His words will have much impact on millions of believers. I hope the Vatican will also try to be “carbon-free.”
Now, if he could also change his position on abortion, women;s quality in the church and birth control…
RobertL18…So no one should ever say anything unless they articulate a clear alternative to capitalism? He inspires people. Encourages and liberates people from the brain fog they face from the ‘way things are’ - he lets them know things can change and he is a perfect example in the flesh.
Oh by the way speaking of empty rhetoric …you forgot to elucidate your alternative to capitalism.
Communism and socialism does not create wealth. What is needed is capitalism with a social conscience. I’d also ask his holiness to encourage his countrymen to Google: ‘Argentina’s Illegitimate Sovereignty Claims’ and rise up to ditch the mythical Malvinas claims.
Yes, I am aware of what he said. We must first place a monkey wrench in the corporate fascists plans while developing a vision to replace them. In many parts of the world this vision is starting to come into focus.
Yeah but this is the electronic age - the instant communications - see it on video - streaming live - text me about it - modern world and when a Pope says it now then millions will get to hear it almost instantly and not just a relative academic or religious and laic few.
So in other words >>> This Pope’s words got … Emoxie!
Men have said that only men should be priests. You speak as if it is ordained by God simply because the 12 were men. It ignores when women were first to see the risen Jesus, when the woman at the well was instrumental in an apostolic sense and brought Jesus to stay among the Samaritans for three days so the He could teach them. It was because of her that that happened. Apostolic! It ignores that women supported the early church, the apostles and very likely Jesus’s ministry (particularly the wives of powerful men).
Gender preference in faith is Paulistic but not from Christ but then Paul also tells men to cut their hair in the Roman style while some people today act like God is concerned with haircuts. It is only a tradition anyway and not an article of faith that only men can be priests.
To say or think that God prefers men over women in any sense tells you what about patriarchal thinking? It tells that MEN say that and whether pagan, judeo-christian-islamic, buddhist or otherwise… the men all have said it.
Do you really think God has a preference based on gender? Seriously?
By the way… Jesus tells us that God is a spirit… no gender is implied nor should be inferred.
The Romans were most definitely capitalists. What you are talking about is religious capitalism and calvinism is a perfect example but not the only one but protestants didn’t invent capitalism… they justified it. Where Jesus said give to the poor they said God wanted those people to be poor and the rich to be rich. Handy that if you were making big bucks but kept getting nervous when the New Testament kept saying things like eye of a needle and if you would be perfect then give all you own to the poor and so forth.
Lol but capitalism has been around a lot longer than the name for it.
RobertL: I can’t agree with you here. Some folks are adept at creating a detailed new visions without much reference to, or even much understanding of, existing systems. The strength of others lies in the their ability to clearly and articulately and in detail describe why and how a current system has failed/needs replacing/endangers human life … etc. This latter strength may, or may not, be combined with skills in articulating alternatives. In this case, and without knowing the Pope, I would surmise that he might regard the desiging of any system to replace capitalism as the task of this audience i.e., he’s representing the outgoing generation and articulating why and how it’s failed (i.e., by applying capitalist doctrine to solve life’s problems) and it’s the next generation’s task to avoid repeating the same mistake and to develop some alternative.
The fact that Jesus didn’t choose women to be priests is irrelevant to whether women can be priests today. He didn’t wear polyester clothes but I don’t see anyone using this as a rationale to deny polyester-lovers clothing in their chose fabric.
As for your abortion paragraph, I’m not clear what you’re arguing for / against. Many of the folks who self-identify as “pro-choice” wouldn’t disagree with you and every day encourage women considering an abortion to consider alternatives. But that doesn’t mean that the decision to be made should be made by men (or by anyone other than whoever’s pregnant).
“Natural law” seems to be whatever abstract principle will unify all of my diverse beliefs and/or prejudices. But to exchange the meaning “abstract principle” with the meaning of “law” is a very dangerous act. Law implies something that must be obeyed. I.e, it codifies your our beliefs and/or prejudices into something others must comply with. Do you get this? That’s a hideous and preposterous way to go.
As for the Catholic always being at odds with the culture in which it’s embedded, historically, that’s been more untrue than true. If you look at the history of the Catholic Church, as a profit-making and profit-seeking corporation look-alike, it’s generally tended to side with autocratic right-wing regimes when those regimes allow free collection of profit. This Pope breaks that mold, which is one reason why he’s a breath of fresh air to many of us.
Birth control. If it allows men to use women as sex toys it also allows women to use men as sex toys. But lack of birth control never stopped men before from using women as sex toys (and baby factories). I don’t see the connection here … Sex with or without birth control can be a contact sport or an act of love or a way to relieve stress or a way exert power / control or any number of things. The presence or absence of birth control doesn’t determine any of them as far as I can see. Men, as well as women, are “raped, murdered, and abused constantly”, do you blame birth control for these atrocities as well? Birth control may allow for joyful sex … may allow for sex as a pure expression of love between equals free of female anxieties over the health risk of pregnancy, free of anxiety over unwanted pregnancy and a child than cannot be cared for. If birth control is the source of so much evil, why is it that one method (withdrawal, or the “cyclical” approach has church approval while another -condoms- (which also protects human life which you claim to be a major concern by preventiong disease transmission) are forbidden?
One could argue that over-population is “an extension of that death” and that falure to use contraception wisely is "an extension of that death
What makes a women not a “life giver”? Your writing read like a series of simplistic, self-justifying riddles. Has it ever struck you that you may be losing the essence of meaning by getting side-tracked by the particular coloring - or decoration, if you will - that was most appropriate for an audience 2,000 years ago? You conclusion “Thus, mankind was made male and female” in the the paragraph that begins “Genesis states that …” makes absolutely not logical sense to me whatsoever and doesn’t follow from what precedes it in that paragraph. There’s no logical or consistency in what you’ve been writing here and I can only conclude that you are an internet “troll” of some sort writing nonsensical and incoherent posts to gain pleasure from wasting others’ time. I apologize if this is really not the case as I don’t want to insult anyone … but I must say that I’m not going to spend any more time responding to your posts here because it’s going nowhere …
Being an old coot much as you yourself are (give or take a year or two) we have seen and shared the same era. Much has changed and IMO too much has stayed the same. But while I have studied and perused all manner of religious tomes from theology to historicity… You are the first and only one that I can recall who managed to work in an analogy of God and a chicken! I’ll give you that one! I am impressed!
That said… sigh…here we go… I feel like the serpent in the garden (but in reverse) introducing a religious debate into CD’s comment community… but your sincerity deserves respect and so … I’m doomed and might as well get it over with!
What hierarchical structure? You mean the one based on a patriarchal society’s patriarchal political system (monarch’s ? Hey I’m not a republican …I believe in democracy… no hierarchs for me!!!). That theological mystery thing… is skirting close to Nestorian Arianism and way too arcane to mention in polite company. You dropped a stitch there… the trinity is three in one not one two three.
Mankind was made in God’s image? Exactly what does that mean since you speak of metaphors. God being a spirit did not have the physical form of a hominid. I believe it meant that we like God (in His image) can create, admittedly limited in scope but creative nonetheless (who knows maybe someday we will get an upgrade?) Animals do not create (do not mention a beaver’s dam or a bird’s nest…not even a bird of paradise) they obey instinct. Man does not have to. We …in HIS image …can also create. All except for the most primitive life forms follow the male and female principle for the distribution of genetic material. And yes God created evolution (along with everything else). We do not agree (and I am afraid neither does the Church) that the trinity is a begotten and rebegotten formula like procreation. Maybe I’m wrong and if so I’m sure i’ll hear about it.
Jesus never says from a rib BTW… Jesus says clear as a bell >>> 'He made them - man and woman". Together. There is no authority … there was companionship. Authority over creation? That’s a bit hyperbolic. Our ‘authority’ is rapidly acidifying the seas and heating up the planet and causing the sixth great extinction. A patriarchal society would see the man as the authority. Where exactly do you see this supposed authority in the story? Any incident come to mind? Is this an inferred authority? Presumed? Assumed? Where is it?
You get fuzzy here… maybe you could buttress your comments with some details? “…the image of God which gives to man his authority”? What that the hominid image thing again? The “Father is over all” but the trinity is the Father (mystically) as three in one being. “Man images that authority over all by having authority given by God.” Yeah you say that but where does this happen? That hominid likeness thing again?
“No authority unless it is visible authority”? I have no idea what that means sorry. “Man is the visible authority over creation”? Oh yeah since when? BTW if you have this so called ‘authority’ over creation please order global warming to stop immediately and while you are at it please add a bit of atmosphere to Mars so we can emigrate there and muck that planet up too. “All structures have authority”? You seem a bit too fixated on authority here. I guess I am a rebel at that… or I have a deep problem with authority per se… I like democracy (and term limits btw) not authority structures.
Men or women can represent Christ by giving the Eucharist in my faith. Men and women are equals and always have been and always will be in my life (except for one unfortunate incident in the third grade when she gave me a bloody nose and changed my view of patriarchy forever).
However my friend Unique… to say that a woman is not a life giver is pretty much ass backwards in my book. Get real would you please! Think of what you are saying?
Women give birth… men only congratulate each other about it once its over…lol.*
Women should be priests too.
You can smoke dope. Or you can lead revolution. You cannot do both.
You decide what record you leave with your life.
Who drives your karma?
Jesus warned them about how they love to obey man made laws and say that these were laws made by God. My Jesus rendered unto Caesar that which was Caesar’s (authority, taxes -the way of the world). His ‘kingdom’ was within and NOT of the world.
They walked through a field gathering kernels and eating them and were admonished for breaking the sabbath law about work (harvesting). Jesus said “The sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath.”
Apply that reasoning to authority and you’ll see how it is supposed to work.
I’ve developed a taste for cider but Samuel Adams makes about the tastiest draft going imo…lol
Anytime but if you wish to discuss religion then message me rather than do this in CD. I will of course…having no shame whatsoever about talking about anything and at length but fair is fair…we are talking stuff here… not theology.
The US mainstream media consistently supports capitalism and damns socialism, and denigrates anyone who does the opposite.
Why then are they giving Pope Francis, who has been energetically damning capitalism, such favorable press?
Usually this media’s prejudicial inclinations are obvious, but their favorable treatment of the pope baffles me.
I see um? Sorta…maybe …um? No i don’t get 'cha? So when talking about the Pope leave God out of it? Um… give me a break.