Originally published at http://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/12/16/progressives-need-united-front-sanders-and-warren
As I said before, the need of the day is to present a united front Sanders/Warren.
Let us all work for it!
Yup, for all the reasons Norm lays out - “Progressives Need a United Front for Sanders and Warren.”
Of course, I hope Sanders keeps rising and Warren continues falling, then vocally supports him and lobbies ceaselessly for him to swing as many of her flock as strongly as possible onto his side, consolidating the progressive vote…
…the sooner the better…
But in this situation, progressive internecine enmity - vs. civil argument - will surely hurt progressives.
Unlike Norm, I do think ‘electability’ is a legitimate issue - if I thought the US situation were such that Warren had a better chance against Trump than Sanders, I’d support Warren. But I think she has a worse chance:
In the below link, a GA poll is referenced re party crossover support for Sanders vs. Warren - there is, like zero % for Warren…as has been discussed many times, she doesn’t have the beer track, working class draw of Sanders w/critical parts of the electorate.
Point made here too, suggesting why this should be no surprise:
Not Warren. She is a phony, a Trojan horse pseudo-progressive who is running to distract from the ONLY truly, mildly progressive (more New Deal Democrat than Socialist) candidate, Sanders. She parrots his positions, but in a slightly different way that makes them not as progressive as his. She cheated on her promise not to take large donor money by transferring $10 million in large donations from her last Senate campaign to her presidential campaign. I don’t think she would honor her promises on single-payer health care or college tuition reform if elected. I don’t trust her, and neither should any real progressive. It’s Bernie or bust again, and it’s the LAST chance the Democratic Party has to get any of our votes back!
Yep progressives may not want to face it but the truth is that we need a united front. The forces of Wall St and the corporate oligarchy along with racists, fundamentalists and the purposefully misinformed are united against us, so to beat them we really do need to come together on this.
Bernie and Warren in 2020 (and then Warren and AOC in 2024. Lol).
I feel exactly the same way - I’m hoping she is not the nominee (and if she is and picks Harris, my senator, she is out of her mind).
But I’m less convinced she is a liability as VP and so I’m starting to change my mind about VP options for Bernie (even though I still think this is getting ahead of ourselves, I can’t help but think about it as often as it is discussed here). I’m now thinking with @Wereflea that Warren might be the best choice. I absolutely thought Hillary should have asked Bernie to be her VP and she would have won the Electoral College had she done so. It is starting to look like a similar dynamic here - if we (the Bernie side) win the nomination and it is as bitter as Hillary/Bernie was we are in trouble and a VP pick is a clear way out of that trouble. A Republican in MA for Senate until the special election is a much smaller issue than being stuck with Trump for 4 more years or even than being stuck with Biden.
Maybe more of Bernie would rub off on Warren and she would improve some of her positions that are unpalatable to many of us - foreign policy, means testing, wishy-washy Medicare for All support. I doubt she’d attempt to undercut Bernie as VP in any way - I don’t have that low of an opinion of her.
Listen to your baloney. It is easy to say ‘Bernie or bust’ but it wouldn’t be easy if we did bust. Geez, grow up. It isn’t a game. There would be horrific consequences for the future if we went bust. You say things like you don’t believe this or that but Warren’s successful fight against Wall St and her reform minded positions are real. You want to pretend that socialism alone will win but would it? Bernie can do only so much and we see how much already. Warren is the same but together, they would have a landslide because Warren’s stated intention to reform not destroy capitalism will reassure voters who are not socialists for the most part. I think voters want Bernie but are a bit scared (of people like you) and Warren would calm their fears.
Sanders and Warren in 2020.
C’mon, baska. You and me both know we can take all our hopes for what’s gonna happen this election, and knit a memorial quilt with them or just throw it all out. What do our hopes have to do with anything – or with the primaries, at least? There might be a batch of super-tornados heading for the deep south today which entirely upends the primary season, for all we know.
I read Solomon’s not-so-hidden theme as an apology for Warren diehards. Warren ditched herself when she updated to medicare-for-all-after-awhile. A few, here and there, have noticed that Warren has been dropping like a brick ever since M4AAA – as predicted here and elsewhere. Why unite with losers like Warren, if your intention is to win?
Thanks Gene, Warren while good against Wall Street is pro-
Cold War and supports Venezuela’s American puppet.
My point (see above) is that this is exactly what the Hillary camp was likely arguing. We can be smarter. No one has to decide today, but it’s not shrewd to rule it out.
One has to wonder Norm; if all the Impeachment news,
loved by the corporate state media, isn’t giving Biden
face time; when he should be investigated for the
role he played in the Ukrainian coup and the following gains
from collaboration with its neo-Nazi government.
Maybe the pro-Trump blowback is beginning?
I really don’t understand points like “Oh no, we can’t resemble the Hillary camp.” That’s like saying I shouldn’t like dogs, because Hitler did. It’s just silly - even infantilizing.
People or rather some progressives are being dishonest here. Warren took a hit in the polls after the corporate media started to attack her so much. It was ignore Bernie and attack Warren, if you remember. Warren may have not appeared as progressive as Bernie but she is not being given a fair shake by some of us. It isn’t only progressives running in this race. Too many people talk as if it were a race only between the two of them. Some people talk as if it were only a contest to see who was the most progressive as if that was the only thing that mattered! Well guess what? The rest of the country will be voting too not just only progressives. This petty bulls**t about when she did this or said that is self destructive. It just may be that if Bernie and Warren don’t get together then we might just lose everything when there had once been a chance that for the first time ever that progressives could have won everything.
For my family, Medicare for All is not just a good idea, it means the difference between life and death. We know that Warren will not fight for Medicare for All, and has no chance of getting it passed.
For my grandchildren, the Green New Deal is not just a good idea, it means their future on a habitable planet. Warren does not support it; she doesn’t even support ending all fracking.
So, no thanks. Bernie is the transformational candidate of our lifetimes, and instead of backing him, Warren is trying to defeat him. Warren is a political opportunist. So I am #BernieOrBust.
Calm down, Wereflea. Perhaps the overdose of truth in my post is upsetting you unduly, to the point where you level ridiculous charges of dishonesty in those with whom you differ. Warren’s revised plan for M4A isn’t anything like trivial bullshit (I’ve got special permission to spell it out in my posts). It was part of a concerted shift to the middle, probably in response to Clintonite counseling. Not at all insignificant. Warren has explicitly enlisted in loser-like retrenchment – the same bullshit we always see from Democrats.
But you can see things differently without my accusing you of deceit (only foolishness).
hi dara, i’ve posted a lot of links, arguments and evidence over last months that sanders will beat trump whereas warren is unelectable.
if you’ve got an argument or evidence-supported link arguing otherwise, glad to read it.
I’m not seeing your analogy. My point is to bring up something that Hillary did that was clearly wrong - not an arbitrary thing. If Hitler did something stupid (and that includes a great many things), then pointing that out as something not to do is relevant.
Spare me your baloney. I did not accuse you of anything. You aren’t the only one to say such things. I said some progressives not you in particular. God, this is boring. Stop being so petty. This is the most important election in my life by my reckoning. I say this because I have never before seen any real progressive stand as good a chance as do Bernie and Warren to get elected. The oligarchy has forced the issue and it is due to their excesses that the rest of the country is even considering electing a progressive. The rest of the country is not progressive - that is the fact like it or not. They will vote and unless we can unite as much as have the forces on the right then somebody like Trump may just win again. Biden is the oligarchy’s fall back position. That is because he won’t change anything and he won’t reform anything either.
It is looking more and more like Bernie and Warren may just need each other to win for us all.
Sorry but what you are saying is not true. They have shown video of Warren verbally battling Biden years ago where she stood up for consumers and he was defending corporate interests. She has been fighting against Wall Street for years so she is NO Trojan Horse.
If progressives rated candidates on what they stood for, perhaps Bernie would get an A- rating and Warren would get a solid B. Most of the other candidates would probably range from C- to an F. So if Bernie by some twist of fate falters and Warren wins the primary election, you’re going to pick up your baseball glove, kick up some dirt, go home and sulk letting Trump win the final election.
Nice strategy. Four more years of bloody hell!! Good thinking.
I seem to be misunderstood a lot lately - I will have to reconsider how I phrase things. I did say I felt exactly the same way as you so I have nothing to add on Warren’s chances to win as the nominee.
I was only talking about the logic of picking her for VP - there is no one Bernie can pick that has a better chance of beating Trump as the nominee than he does (it’s him or Biden that poll the best - and I don’t believe Biden’s numbers will hold - he will likely implode - and Bernie certainly won’t pick Biden). And I don’t think it makes sense to automatically pick the next person down the list in terms of 1-1 poll numbers against Trump (I don’t even know who that it is - might Warren, Pete, or somebody else). He could pick someone not running (many choices have been discussed). I think he should pick a woman - it’s almost mandatory I would say. Warren is certainly a reasonable choice given the context of the Solomon article.