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Pushing Carbon Tax and Fracking Ban, Sanders Lays Down Gauntlet on Climate


And funnily enough, Russia’s and China’s equivalent aircraft are alleged to be better and indeed less expensive.


Problem is, how does one make the polluters pay? A carbon tax is simply countered by the utility charging the consumer more.


You are making the same mistake that many do in thinking in absolutes and in either or situations. A carbon tax includes the true cost of carbon and not just absorbing it like we do now. Coal burning pollutes the air, adds Mercury to rivers and lakes, causes respiratory problems etc. those costs are traditionally not factored in but we pay them anyway. If you had been offered coal as a new technology but were told that it would poison the air, water, cause health problems, destroy land and streams with mountaintop removal etc, you’d think it insanely expensive to use. That reality of what carbon actually costs is what a carbon tax addresses.

Secondly to say renewables are less efficient is false. You mean that all these folks who put solar on their roofs and then sell electricity back to the utility (net metering) are faking it? That a wind farm that provides electricity more cheaply than would a coal fired plant (that produces 3 or 4 million tons of carbon a year) and doesn’t require buying fuel ever is also faking?

The majority of new energy plant construction is in renewables. Google that fact. Much has changed in just the last ten years. Solar and wind are efficient now so don’t compare new technology with old because it is like computers and cell phones… Ten years changes technology a lot. That has happened to renewables worldwide.

You posit a one time all at once either or! Either or what? It is happening all around you and fast. The difference is that in your mind you think of it as an extra cost but that is nor correct. Instead of building a coal fired plant, they build a wind farm or solar plant. The same money needed to build more energy capacity is used to build that capacity using renewables instead. You seem to think that it requires additional money but why would it? Energy plants need building and replacing all the time. Proposals to add home solar etc mean jobs and savings to people since heating your home using coal energy you just pay bills but with solar you actually get it to pay for itself eventually and then make you money instead. New types of solar panels are becoming much cheaper and manufacturers can’t keep up with demand for the kinds they already have anyway. Orders are back logged.

Fossil fuel companies want to make excuses to keep you paying them a huge profit but at great cost to the planet through pollution. A carbon tax makes it less profitable for them and cheaper for us because we pay for that damage not them. All those added costs we pay for… Those are a tax on us btw.


A utility is a legal monopoly and even those which aren’t are regulated as to what can be charged. Carbon tax is not just for utilities either. Plastic shopping bags are so ubiquitous and indestructible that they pose a hazard to us and wildlife etc. if they weren’t so cheap then we wouldn’t use them so much. Paper bags work just fine. Heck they give you a plastic bag for an object small enough to fit in your pocket. They give you a plastic bag for everything you buy. How many times has everyone visited more than one store and then stopped for a moment to put all the small items into one plastic bag and then thrown away a half dozen of the new ones?

Carbon tax will cause people to use something other than plastic. Plastic is too cheap.


I don’t believe that determining costs going forward can properly be done using usurious fiat-based petrodollars. “Economics” must be redefined to reflect global realities that can no longer be externalized because they can no longer be hidden.


I could not agree more with you. I recall the days when women went shopping with their own bags, as did men if they went shopping. The waste in all items is abominable; packaging is the modern nightmare.


We are overwhelmed by irony as a technological civilization in that we manufacture things not for durability or permanence expecting to frequently replace them and buy new ones. In a sense, everything we make is for short term use, from fashionable clothing to cheaply made products that break easily etc.

However, we wrap our products in packaging that while intended to be disposable - is virtually indestructible!


THAT is a profound insight that had never occurred to me. Yes, collectively we shit in our own nest most complacently.