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The Battle Lines Have Been Drawn on the Green New Deal


#1

The Battle Lines Have Been Drawn on the Green New Deal

Naomi Klein

“I REALLY DON’T like their policies of taking away your car, taking away your airplane flights, of ‘let’s hop a train to California,’ or ‘you’re not allowed to own cows anymore!'”

So bellowed President Donald Trump in El Paso, Texas, his first campaign-style salvo against Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Sen. Ed Markey’s Green New Deal resolution. There will surely be many more.


#2

Sorry little donnie, YOU choose what youŕe willing to change. For me the question of a car was ended a decade ago. Same with flying - emergency perhaps. Its a shame your mental capacities aren’t as fast the jaw flapping. Were you known for actual contributions to society, rather than the record shat out behind you, you would probably find public support about a leniency of your use rather than abuse. Cows? First simply address the spectrum of the dimensions of the debacle of CAFOs. A cow herd here and there on small scale full-cycle organic farms is something quite different.

This is a war in which ALL of US are engaged - like it or not. The sooner we recognize the spectrum of impacts caused by centralization, monopolies, and predatory capitalism on ourselves and neighbors, the better.


#3

I hope we get much green reducing greenhouse emissions and replacing much of our use of fossil fuel with renewable energy including solar, wind, and geothermal with the wells using carbon dioxide as fracking and heat exchange fluid.


#4

“The Times They Are A Changin,” Bob Dylan.
It seems to be coming around again.

Beware Corporate Dems,
“Your old road is rapidly aging
Please get outta’ the new one if you can’t lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin’”


#5

Seems like if you combined enough CO2 with some other compound that’s liquid at ambient [like? and how much energy would that take?], and devoted half the resultant liquid to geothermal and half to fracking…you’d have to rebuild most infrastructure all over again due to earthquakes. I could be wrong. Anyway, the natural gas you’d get would leak too much (in processing and transporting) into the atmosphere. I could be wrong. Just seems that way.


#6

I agree with this article. I would add to the three crises the lack at the moment of A WAY TO INSPIRE THE WORLD (a little) RIGHT NOW (MSM more or less intimates every day we should be tougher on Russia–that’s their whole thing; nevermind the substance of what Klein or AOC are talking about). If we demand and get a better NAFTA for instance, the world’ll get the drift. As far as communicating concepts goes, the yellow vests seem to be making some noise. But, for example, a better NAFTA will both BENEFIT PEOPLE IN MORE THAN ONE NATION and SAY SOMETHING copisetic.

Things to think about going uphill…

  1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Period

  2. Gail Tverberg articles


#7

I could complain about many aspects of the GND as currently presented.

And I could look around for a better proposal and find nothing.

Finally, I could just root for anything as the clock to climate chaos counts down.


#8

Good Lord, I left out any bearing at all of NAFTA on the environment. These “deals” so far have not been conjured up mainly to promote MORE TRADE! They’re about more profit to the biggest corporations. It’s only the spin that sez the consequent greater number of jobs and greater number of shipping containers moved [barring trade wars] will lift all boats.

Don’t know where 2.0 is on this right now, but back in Oct…

Particular complaints focused on the investor-state dispute settlement process, a system in which companies have been historically afforded broad corporate rights that override local environmental regulations.

The new deal limits those rights, with one major exception: U.S. oil and gas companies. Under the rules, firms that have, or may at some point obtain, government contracts to drill or build infrastructure like pipelines and refineries in Mexico ― such as ExxonMobil Corp. ― can challenge new environmental safeguards Mexican President-elect Andrés Manuel López Obrador has vowed to erect." https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nafta-environment_us_5bb24486e4b0c7575967b819

IOW, no more ISDSs, except ExxonMobil gets to do’em!! Just what we need…more oil in the Gulf of Mexico along with all the petro-fertilizer nitrates runoff.


#9
  1. The hippies were right.

  2. The fat cats have wasted one hell of a lot of time.

  3. And now…??


#10

Truth has not matter long before Donald Trump and he along with republican party and corporate dems learned that lies work when repeated over and over and there is never any accountability. In fact, they are rewarded with monies from industry the low info voters who watch Fox news and really don’t hear lambasting demand for accountability from lamestreet billionaire media conglomerates and when some demonstrate the democrats speak up we the people don’t hear it on lamestreet billionaire media conglomerates.


#11

from Intercept article: “…why it is so urgent to use the Green New Deal framework as a potent tool to build that power — a vision to both unite movements and dramatically expand them.

I have thought healthcare for all would be the issue to do this - growing support for, and a palpable, top concern for many across political and large parts of socioeconomic spectrum.

Not that it has to be one or the other.


#12

Sadly, it was far more than fat cats who wasted time.


#13

Convergence is the name of the game if we want to have a healthy environment with clean water, air, and soil to have a chance at good health. They are inseparable so we must have both. Working together toward that goal is imperative.


#14

Agreed on convergence as a vision and practical end, Rebel - background to my thinking about healthcare is idea of ‘health fairs’ where poor people come to get diagnostics/basic care, but also learn about how they can politically demand healthcare for all.

Basically, a politicized version of philanthropic enterprises like Remote Area Medical, whose health fairs draw thousands of low income people without healthcare:

They are exactly the demographic that often doesn’t vote. But, as Josh Mound reminds us, without those poor people, a progressive movement can’t win:

How to put it simply…global warming is killing the poor and the poor’s bad teeth are killing them - but their teeth will get them to congregate and learn how to demand faster than global warming.


#15

Play a game of dominoes:
30 domino, all fossil fuel uses - transport, household, manufacturing, agriculture, chemical, etc in category or class, 2% and under to 25% for transport, industrial uses, etc. The object of the game is to consider which domino to tip first, the others to follow. Answer to the game: ONE hint: The first domino is assumed to be a near 2% or least polluting domino. Projection: Measurable progress in 5 years after 1st domino tipped (~90% reduction of this use). The 2 years ahead will be wasted fighting warmongerruling class led by an animal farm pig.


#16

Another consideration when looking at the voting record of the poor is that there is nothing on offer that addresses their needs from the Ds or Rs.

Our healthcare system has always been a failure for the poor. Now that more middle class folks are floundering in this gross "healthcare’ system, people are waking up and putting pressure everywhere to get healthcare for all like other developed nations. I think that the convergence comes when the newly impoverished, sick, or bankrupt reach out to the long time poor and make sure their needs are met too and get them engaged in the fight.


#17

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
*“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over
*“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”
Joseph Goebbels, MiniProp for Hitler’s Third Reich
1897-1945

*“Naturally the common people don’t want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same for any country.”
Herman Goering to Gustave Gilbert at Nuremberg, 18 April, 1946

Operation Paperclip brought the above and a whole lot more to the US with the thousands of important Nazis that were brought over to teach us how to do it right next time, which is now.
;-})


#19

And they are?


#20

How about millions of people in the industrialized world going about their carbon intensive lives – and a couple billion more in developing nations now doing the same?

They want power, climate chaos be damned:


#21

Why can’t we…

One of the biggest obstacles is how fascism works.

Gave my 2 cents on that tonight. An Obituary for the Republic

Or we could focus more on the heaviest racism going down…

ROBERTO LOVATO: —it wasn’t just El Mozote massacre. You have the entire landscape of El Salvador massacre, was, you know, dotted with mass graves, because of mass graves of entire towns. And then you have Guatemala—right?—where towns, Mayan towns mostly, were entirely wiped out, just like in El Mozote. And you have the Contra war in Nicaragua.
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/2/14/roberto_lovato_elliott_abrams_is_bringing