Home | About | Donate

The Coming Battle Over Vaccines

Originally published at http://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/12/23/coming-battle-over-vaccines

I think there is a bias that there must be something wrong with the decision making ability of anyone that does not want to participate in a medical experiment. There are side effects with available vaccines that should be considered and potentially others that should not participate. Long term effects are theoretical. I think when we invalidate decision making with terms like anti-vaxxers it adds to the skepticism or rather contributes to herd mentality along with herd immunity.

1 Like

No one has tested the efficacy of the vaccines against the new virus variants. I was born with a functioning immune system. Keep your witch’s brew far away from me.

1 Like

Seems an obvious reason for skepticism was overlooked: What is really going on? What are global elites planning? Is there something diabolical in that vaccine? Who really let loose this virus? Yes, the reason is PARANOIA!

1 Like

Disagree strongly. The most raucous disrespectful protests I’ve ever seen at the California State capital were the anti-vaccine protests. Besides blocking my path as I walked across the park to the ATM, screaming about how vaccines cause asthma, diabetes, cancer, and are ways for Bill Gates to control minds, they threw blood at lawmakers and got highly aggressive with on-site officers. That’s when I realized the so-called anti-vaccine “movement” is more a conspiratorially focused religious one, than one of concern.

Subsequent reading has only confirmed my feelings. There’s grift in the anti-vaccine “movement,” especially among its leaders, who often overlap conspiracies while hawking their own “natural” products to truth-seeking fans. “Just questioning” is always the easy entry point to every cult and scam, and I see a good part of the anti-vaccine “movement” employing the same technique. The fact that several anti-vaccine folks I know, one a one-time good personal friend, have glommed onto Qanon stuff kind of gives up the game. Hesitancy is one thing, but believing and pushing nonsense is another.

2 Likes

Natural scientists have done their part by creating vaccines that are safe and highly effective.

Safe & Highly Effective? …How can this be known at this time?

2 Likes

Ok, I still think it a disservice to use generalized terms without defining them. If anything it wouldn’t dismiss knowing if there were people within that group that had sustained vaccination injury or if they would be able to properly identify side effects or unintended consequences. This could also be the result of poor patient education or reliable information. This is an exaggerated situation with novel treatment, political influence, and potentially severe consequences. It is never discussed that we are culturally at risk by lifestyle and other habits. Just saying there is a lot of problem behaviors on all sides (consider government response) and these type of protests barely conform to accepted standards for decision making. It is just bad behavior. Sorry that happened to you.

For me this would mean what is an acceptable risk, not if there are risks. There is a range of possible outcomes and it would be different for each person. Unfortunately, the risks for getting the disease is considerable.

1 Like

Vaccines & Genetic Technology: We are playing with fire. Viruses are highly intelligent and recombine often… For example, in the 3rd vaccine platform, they are using the common cold virus to deliver the spike proteins… what if all common cold vaccines recombine into something new & novel with their own spike proteins…this may or may not happen…but the point is we are releasing something novel back into nature and it will be utilized… The Law of unintentional consequences… remember DDT…we are really playing with fire here, using a vaccine for a short term solution, long term impacts, could be very dangerous… back to Covid, haven’t hear any news about providing access to health care to those non-insureds… this make no sense…

2 Likes

These are all considerations because vaccines change how our immune system works. It by-passes part of our system that protects us and this type change is really hard to link to causation. Not to mention we never hear that part of the story unless we are naturally curious or it is our job to know. There isn’t much validation when you suspect you’ve had a bad response too.

1 Like

As I note above, I have friends that have been taken in by the anti-vaccine movement. Whatever merits it had, it’s a very obvious pseudo-religious orientation at this point averse to evidence. Anecdotally, a friend kept sending me look-what’s-in-vaccines! links. Also links to herbal product websites, which are natural and good of course. The catch: I sent her an air quality index report for the county she lived in so she could see what’s in the air she breathed in July. As I explained, if a one-time injection “of chemicals” caused all the bad stuff she claims, how does ingesting pollutants daily, via the lungs, play out? How does she know one is bad, the other not as much? And, given the daily ingestion of “chemicals,” including some pretty bad ones, like ammonia nitrate, wouldn’t it be better to focus on air pollution?

She could not answer, except to say that “X” herbal products will cure diseases and to send me links. That’s fine as far as it goes, she’s not a chemist. But I’ve seen her thought process and sentiments all over anti-vaccine social media. It’s something I, personally, can’t countenance, especially as the well goes deeper into Qanon conspiracy babble and tripe. What’s obvious: if not for most inoculations being uncomfortable shots, the “movement” wouldn’t exist or would be something else. Nobody talks about the side effects of aspirin, after all, much less the unregulated and lucrative orally ingested herbal products being slung on these sites.

2 Likes

This is great, here we have discovered a human misconception that I’m sure is quite significant. I have a friend too, she is an educated woman (MFCC) I guess you would consider elderly and a world traveler. Was taking the necessary vaccinations for travel and ended up in the hospital for a week. Was it a coincidence with the vaccination or a result? Was it reported or examined? No. This would be something that could provide needed information more than hot line recording of possible incidence.

I go back to the time when natural healing was the basis for many of the treatments we have today. Native people had treatment and cures for natural diseases. Until the introduction of man-made pollutants. Healers were treated very badly when they couldn’t cure illness created by modern day toxins or what they called white man diseases. When it comes to natural remedies, today it takes a doctor or naturopath in many cases. Or at least an experienced practioner. Yes, I agree pretty risky business to just buy something off a website without at least discussing it with medical doctor.

Actually, her doctor probably did report it, to VAERS. The thing is, vaccines can cause reactions, nobody disputes this, it’s why I was given a handout prior to my flu shot this year. Allergic reactions, particularly, can result. If it’s a common reaction, there is no need to investigate it—we know about it. The same can be said with common over-the-counter medications, which we see warning labels for. The dirty secret is natural products can also cause side effects and reactions too. We just don’t know about them the same way because they exist in a weakly tested and unregulated market. Until a patient shows up in a doctor’s office, like a friend of mine, and lists what they are taking, before being seen for a rash and difficulty breathing, we just don’t know. In his case, the doctor saw he was having an allergic reaction, asked him to cut out the supplements he was on, and gave him something to stem the reaction. Within a few days, he was better.

1 Like

Good point. I asked her, and she didn’t know, that is part of the problem. Not knowing. She said, her doctor couldn’t make that determination, but you are right it may have been reported, she didn’t report it. Just so you know, there is a fairly complete data base on sites like WebMD and others that include natural medicines, mostly for drug interactions, but nothing takes the place of having someone with practical experience.

Good discussion. Thank you

1 Like

The author asks:

Why, after living in quarantine for nine months while the economy and our mental health crashes around us, after over 300,000 Americans are dead, is getting the vaccine even a question?

There could be articles and even books (and perhaps there are) written that attempt to answer this question. IMO: the answers are complex and ugly.

I’ve got a couple of immediate reactions to this piece:

  1. Where I live (rural upper midwest) for the most part you would not know there is a pandemic going on. People are cramming into the little resort town where I live to snow bike, ski, hike, stay at cute little cabins and go to the restaurants/bars that are still open. So, the above question the author poses is not applicable to them for they are carrying on as if covid is a hoax or the flu. Others are carrying on (i.e. out and about) haughtily thinking a vaccine will save them. :frowning:

  2. For those like me (and the author) who have stayed home in isolation and pared down how I live to just bare essentials, I will admit I am hesitant to step in line for a vaccine that has been fast tracked and falls under the name “operation warp speed”
    Additionally there are so many mixed messages now about the variants which could have an impact on the vaccines. On one MSM site it is stated that the variant in UK is 70 % more transmissible.
    A doctor singing the praises of the vaccine on MSM last night basically dismissed this and said this about the UK variant (completely ignoring the S. African variant) “we are not sure how much more transmissible the variant is”.

WTF??

None of them are sure the vaccine is effective against the recent variants.

So . . . how comfortable should one feel rolling up our sleeves?

Much of my discomfort is related to those that cling to the notion of a vaccine coming in to save us even as there are way too many who blindly ignore what we need to do to stop covid transmission.

This to me is utter bullshit------handing out bandaids to humans that have forced the biosphere (and all the spheres on earth) into death throes, inducing a fatal fever and murdering precious ecosystems.

I still believe the focus should be on a culture that harbors crazy, stupid, selfish, anti science, anti compassion people where many (too many) people do not care as much about other life forms/ecosystems as they do humans.

They don’t care about THIS:
Habitat fragmentation, biodiversity loss and the risk of novel infectious disease emergence
~https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsif.2018.0403

Have we heard Dr. Fauci speak to this? Dr. Fauci who is revered by so many.
To date I still haven’t figured out what the hell he has done that is worthy of such reverence.

Dr. Peter Wadhams should be getting accolades! But how many people know who Dr. Wadhams is?

Everything is connected. You absolutely cannot separate viruses from the health (or lack there of) of the planet.

If we focus on our sick culture it looks bleak-----perhaps that is why we just focus on a potential quick fix like a vaccine.

Dr. Haseltine seems to be the only scientist who is voicing his deep concern over the reliance on vaccines as well as his concern over the new variants.

~https://www.rawstory.com/2020/10/scientists-warn-americans-are-expecting-too-much-from-a-vaccine/

My mental health suffers at times due to the reality of our predicament that extends WAY beyond covid and into the reaches what I believe is societal, ecosystem collapse brought on by humans. It is very hard to find people that will talk about this honestly, openly and compassionately.

1 Like

One should not minimize a danger. Vaccines are dangerous; for example, biotechs and pharma have complete legal immunity from any damage or death caused by their so-called safe products. 2.) Do you know what they are injecting into you as part of the vaccine mix?..what are they hiding? …3.) Over time there have been many dangerous components to vaccines, such as heavy metals like Aluminum, etc which are neurotoxins…these may or may not be part of the mix…4. ) this new genetic technology, has certainly not been proven to be safe nor effective…where is the scientific data beyond the initial press reports?.. and regarding your comment about herbal products, these are plant anti -viral medicines…plants have been battling effectively against viruses for much time, for anyone to disregard these medicines would be ir-responsible. The main reason these are not in wider use is the profit motive…if you cannot make money, big pharma will not pursue…

On what basis are you making this assertion? Antivirals are a product of modern medicine, made possible by developments like gene sequencing. Certainly, people have been taking herbs etc. for generations to alleviate symptoms associated with disease. A lot of medicine is taking concentrated amounts of plant components and putting them in pill or other forms to make them more efficacious and ingestible. A lot of medicine is making them so these same ingredients are safely digestible too. Lots of plants and funguses can kill you or make you sick, after all.

KC… plants have been defending themselves against viruses for many thousands of years if not longer…these are anti-viral medicines…

They also die from viruses and assorted other pathogens too.

wow, this article has more outrageous doublespeak than I’ve read in one piece in a while here! Let’s get detailed in response.
Article: “Why, after living in quarantine for nine months while the economy and our mental health crashes around us, after over 300,000 Americans are dead, is getting the vaccine even a question?”
Answer: This vaccine is unprecedented in the fact that it uses gmo ingredients, and rna technology that have never before been used on humans. This vaccine is being rushed out without following accredited, peer reviewed scientific protocols for such development, like using animal trials before humans among other things. It is, therefore by definition experimental and unproven. The tests that were done, did not even include the elderly age group that has suffered the greatest death count, and which will be one of the first vaccinated. What could go wrong?

Article: “In this view, everyone must look out for themselves so they can get ahead, and that’s more important than doing your part to achieve herd immunity for our collective wellbeing.”
Answer: vaccination makes people immune to infection, but it also stops infected people passing on the disease to everyone that they otherwise would. Because this is an experimental vaccine, there is zero information and or knowledge of whether or not it will prevent the ability of asymptomatic people from carrying, and or spreading the disease. In fact it may well inspire overconfidence and contribute to the spread to those who choose not to be vaccinated, as those who are stop trying to be careful around others, relying on the illusion of claims that this untested vaccine prevents virus spread. No one know if it will or not.

Article:it is unsurprising that some people do treat vaccines like a consumer choice and disregard that when they decline a vaccine, they endanger others too…
Answer: So we are going to legislate and punish people whose actions harm others? That would be the day. I’d absolutely love to see the investors who decide to under staff Hospitals get their due, or Oil executives made to clean up oil spills till the job is done. Maybe we could learn to bring back to life all of the people killed every year by medical mistakes, and prescription drug side effects as well?

If vaccines were as safe as folks like this author believe, there would not already be billions of dollars in payouts for vaccine caused illness and death. These relevant historic facts will be negated by the totally free from liability ride that accompanies this round of corporate care. Remember, their motive is not our health. Their motive is profit, as much as possible and as fast as possible. With a free ride on consequences, this will be big Pharmas best year ever for investors!

The lies of technology that have been used to unleash so many pollutants into our air, water and food are quite similar to the lies of blind faith required to encourage people to be used as guinea pigs. Our country has a history of using people as guinea pigs in medical experiments. That authors like this propagate and repeat press releases for corporate solutions to any of our problems, and treat the smarter people who skeptically want science to be conducted by actual scientists, who use established scientific practices is appalling.

It is a great sign that so many Americans are thinking for themselves and not believing people who don’t critically think like this author.