Not a fan of Paul Street or his mind-numbing endless screeds, even if some is entirely accurate. Long lists of trumps past and current neo-fascist corporatist outrages and crimes doesn’t help defeat him and all who sail in him. Street mostly failed to criticize/expose both trump and Hillary in 2016, but focused his ire on Sanders…
My anger at Street comes from his savage unwarranted trashing of Bernie Sanders all thru the 2016 primary season. Relentless Sanders bashing and BS attacks did nothing but aid the selection/anointing of the Red Queen by the DINO establishment scum and help elect trump. A “leftist” voice to be respected or just another talking head spouting the usual rubbish for his own ends?
Street may be avoiding trashing Sanders in this cycle so far, but hey, the 2020 process is young. If Sanders gains strength and prevails over “Wall Street” Joe, this Street will have another chance to attack and again help screw us. I didn’t agree with Streets ugly anti-Sanders attacks then and he still sticks in my craw big-time!
My favorite deep time geologist is Peter Ward, paleontologist/NASA astrobiologist.
From the Introduction to “A New History of Life” (2015), co-authored with his bud Joe Kirshvink (Snowball Earth):
"Scientific information from so-called deep time is the single most ignored aspect of the climate change debate…With every molecule of carbon dioxide we pump into the atmosphere we are ignoring the early warning sirens that rapid rises in carbon dioxide are the commonality between more than ten mass extinctions of the deep past and what is happening today…"
"The history of life also might just save us from near-term extinction, if we note and take heed of its warnings".
Dr. Ward has a new book out, “Lamarck’s Revenge”, on heritable epigenetics (2018).
Peter was a professional scuba diver before his academic career, and lost his best friend to the bends right beside him.
I too know this feeling from my past.
The idea is that post traumatic stress disorder, moral injury, and a host of other deeply felt traumas are capable of forever influencing our own behavioral patterns, and perhaps even passing them on down to our children.
Neil Armstrong lost his three year old daughter to an inoperable brain tumor, for example, and soon after became an astronaut, leaving behind Edwards and the X-15.
One wonders - is our electorate so badly traumatized that it cannot think clearly any more ?
I think this is the case.
Hence your suggestion that it will take an equally traumatic event or events to snap us out of the trance we are in holds water, from cutting edge science in epigenetics.
I’ve got that book and am devouring it - partly to help answer some of my own questions.
Thank you for your intelligent reply, manysummits. I appreciate your recommendation of
Peter Ward and his books. I look forward to reading them. The sentence that I quote above is crucially important. We live in an age and culture in which all
geological, biological or anthropological—is given short shrift, I fear.
I always enjoy your perspectives on a variety of topics. You seem to be possessed of a lifelong, comprehensive curiosity.
I don’t know why you tried to associate me or what I wrote with Biden. I never mentioned him nor would I except in the negative. Moreover you seemingly passed over or under what I did actually write about. I was addressing the curious if somewhat predictable tendency for many people to call for some massive reworking of our society if not our total civilization (in a couple of years no less)! This is due to decades of progressive voices not being taken seriously. Now that Bernie has plowed the ground for them, lots of folks want us to change society and create some alternative to capitalism and elicit a radical philosophical and psychological ‘new mind’ with a snap of the fingers evidently. I spoke of this and I have no idea of why you brought up Biden.
Well, I think history has always been given the short end by most of the people.
But not by all, and so we persist in educating ourselves, as best we can.
There are a few leaders out there, perhaps Yanis Varoufakis for example, who are like-minded.
Churchill was an outcast until the people really needed him, as I remember.
It has always been this way, I think, with the possible exception of our tribal times, but even there, we did exterminate any easy to get megafauna wherever we went, didn’t we ?
Nevertheless, since we seem committed to hitting that iceberg as we speak, we prepare as best we can.
The US is planning to compete once again with China and Russia and perhaps India in a new race to the Moon and later Mars. If we are very lucky, we will learn to put up a joint space shield against bolide impact, and the cooperation that would entail might prevent a nuclear war.
And then there are the spin-offs that always ensue - like from the last race to the Moon fifty years ago.
I am a pilot, as well as a mountaineer and geologist, and might I recommend Jay Barbree’s bio of his good friend Neil Armstrong, “Neil Armstrong, A Life of Flight”, and Michael Collins wonderful personal account, now in its third edition, “Carrying the Fire”, written without ghost writers.
In these two books, humanity shines. Jay Barbree is also a pilot, by the way, in addition to being the only reporter to cover all of the missions so long ago.
I had a model of the X-15, which Neil Armstrong flew seven research flights in, and stayed home from gradeschool to watch Alan Shepherd make that first American spaceflight.
“Creating utopia on the quick can wait until later.”
We are better off w Trump than Biden. Why?
If Biden manages to beat Trump, doubt, he won’t do Jack about Climate Change. Then, as a Centrist that only stands for money, he will suck so hard that a Republican will be elected on the flip furthering not doing Jack on Climate Change Indefinitely.
If Trump wins, we can beat both him & those failed Centrist Democrats.
Trump wins, 4 year delay. Biden wins, indefinite delay.
@qofdisks - You must be joking? The list of Trump outrages is lengthy and growing. Assuming that you are sincere and not just another Trumpeter Troll, I ask you to remember your constitution if nothing else.
We are not “better off” with either one. We are royally screwed either way. We are royally screwed already. We need to change the fundamental operating system of “the economy” fifty-plus years ago. In present circumstances we need to change the fundamental operating system of “the economy” today, this year, right now, ASAP. No matter WHO is in any office.
We have less than zero time to waste on speculative scenarios of how reactions to a worse-than-worthless fascist president vs. a worse-than-worthless neoliberal corporatist president play out over four or eight years. We need to be educating ourselves and this society on the needed changes to try to enable ecological recovery and social stabilization and de-escalation of war, and we need to be exercising power wherever we can to move society and “the economy” in that direction.
The boobs in the White House are almost irrelevant to the kind of broad solidary social movement and economic transformation that are demanded by our planetary and civilizational crises.
What no one seems to want to remember is that five or six corporations own Mass Media. Corporatists (Mussolini fascists - watch “Rock the Cradle” to see Nelson Rockefeller buying priceless art from El Duce to finance his war against Americans dying to defeat fascism - saw that they needed to own Mass Media in order to succeed with the coup they’ve wanted (and been building) since FDR, and saw to it that no Walter Chronkite or Chet Huntley rose to read the Evening News. Read “One Nation Under God: How Corporate America Invented Christian America” by Princeton historian Kevin M. Kruse to see how this slow moving corporatist coup started after Wall Street crashed in '29 and the national economy followed it. This is where evangelicals, “movement conservatives,” came into power in the GOP after Eisenhower stiffed them.
The advertising/PR industry is unregulated. They run denial campaigns and 24/7 propaganda campaigns on TV that keep plutocrats in power over Americans rendered increasingly helpless - and ignorant to the point where what happens before their eyes is a total mystery, thanks to Wall Street and plutocrats efforts to sabotage public education.
The only political group more alienated than the Wall Street Democrats is the New Left, which gave up its power during the Vietnam War, near about, and hasn’t decided they want to do anything more than what everyone else does - bellyache about fascists, the alt right, white supremacists and “movement conservatives,” the guys in the trenches with money plutocrats and oligarchs give them to be there now.
Frank Luntz and the PR gang destroyed the word “liberal” without a fight from liberals. Former moderates became neoliberals to get re-election campaigns funded.
Capitalism in general and neoliberalism specifically must be imposed. That’s “democracy” to the PR guys taking GOP money.
The need now is a paradigm shift from the industrial paradigm to the ecological paradigm, which could have happened before now but Earth Day guys put on suits and worked from offices on K Street. No one sees that environmentalism is anthropocentric as neoliberalism. If it wasn’t a sell-out, it worked like it, just as good. The corruption slime compromised them and captured their volitions, human overpopulation came off the table, and continued infinite growth on a finite planet wrecked the life system so every living thing is full of plastic.
This is because it’s so uncool to fight for a future on Earth. The kids who will have to live in a broken world baby boomers made after protesting got them shot are fighting. Baby boomers elected to top offices are neoliberals, for the most part. Clinton, Dubya, and Obama are all neoliberals, like Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi.
So converting life into money continues until someone with cojones comes along to fight until it’s over, or change paradigms and forget about those who can see no further than their financial interests to build a world fit for living things.
In the 60s, they said don’t trust anyone over thirty. It was never so true as it is now. Plutocrats say the purpose of human life is to make money, and continue making deserts. When we can’t fight Massa because we’re one missed payday from living on the streets with our children and our parents, and accepting that is called “maturity,” we are captured by the short and curlies, and you can’t get out of chains until you’re motivated enough to look for an escape, and find you’ve had the keys all along.
Five or six corporations own Mass Media. This is a direct consequence of that.
With all due respect LibWing, the linked video “analysis” by the coffee nuance talking head on words spoken by trump that there were/are “very fine people on both sides” is itself "disingenuous BS! I am not shocked, but infuriated at its claim!
The trump comment on the Charlottesville anti fascist/neo-nazi/KKK/White supremacist “Unite the Right” march, chanting their racist/nazi slogans ( and after the murder of Heather Heyer!) later attempting to “clarify”/manipulate his clear meaning (even being a verbal idiot child) as being supporting only the people marching protesting removal of the statue of Lee, "not the neo-nazis, white nationalists and bigots "who should be “condemned”, is BS manipulation!
That video in effect supports and makes light of trump’s blatant racism and bigotry against so many groups/peoples in near countless examples - it does NOT reveal shocking truth distorting trumps words!.
The coffee talking-head is disingenuous along with trump and his support for the KKK nazi supremacist marchers and is manipulative in his "shocking ‘fact-check’ BS equivalence expose’.
Bottom line is, the claim by whoever TF that is, that trumps words of support for Charlottesville neo-nazis being “just not true” is itself BullShite and smarmy “nuance” of clear truth!
A tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury, signifying nothing - sorry
Nope. He was right. The same press conference. Not a later re-interpretation. I checked it myself. I went and found the press conference and watched the raw video.
That is exactly what Trump said in it. Over and over. In fact he’d say he is only saying some were nice people there supporting the statue and the press treats them all as if they were Nazis too and a reporter would say, “You’re supporting Neo-Nazis?” with incredulity and he’d explain again and another would shout out, “So you do support Nazis?” and on and on it went.
I am on my phone now. But later I will get my computer and find the raw video again and post it.
Ok, I am now on my computer. It took a while because I had other stuff to do both offline and then online. But then I got busy re-doing the research I’d done before.
I ended up doing even more this time and saved what I found so I have it at hand in the future.
But first let me talk about Tom Coffey. The man is a small alternative news/commentary YouTuber I came across. He clearly is on the Left, but he seems to have an audience on the Right too, whom he is aware of and he doesn’t seek to alienate them in an us vs them manner.
He attracts them, I think, because he’s willing to knock down false narratives including ones made by the Centrist Clintonista Establishmentarian Democratic politicians and their tame media, even if the false narrative was made to smear the Right. What Tom says is that on these things he wants the Truth, not if it helps one side or not.
He isn’t just about politics. In fact I think he started off as being about reviewing film and TV shows and discussing strange psychological realities. He still does all that. Then he moved into fact checking and from there ended up doing political discourse.
He is on the Far Left on several issue: he’s against the CIA narrative justifying the coup in Venezuela, he’s against what’s being done to Assange, he’s for Tulsi Gabbard, he calls crap on centrist Democratic canidates as phonies, he’s for paper trails in voting, and in a comment to me after I said I was far left he said he is too.
Now to the discussion. Emphyrio said that Tom’s video is pure BS. That of course is an opinion, an assertion. But it isn’t proof. Let’s see if he goes on to have proof.
This is, again, nothing but an assertion. First you assume the comment was on the Nazis and Supremacists. Then you assert that later when he clarified he didn’t mean the Nazis and Supremacists you say it is childish BS.
It sounds like you are saying the clarification was much later, in another conference, after he’d become aware how upset everyone was for his support of Nazis and Supremacists so he went back and tried to reinterpret what he said.
But that’s not what happened. He was clear when he said it and he said it all in the same conference.
Nope. Tom Coffey actually says you still might want to assert that Trump is a racist. He doesn’t affirm or deny that. He says, “You can still hate Trump, you can still think he’s a racist, you can still think he’s a terrible human being, you’re entitled to that. But no longer can you use this quote as evidence of it because it’s just not true.”
Again, no evidence to back up the assertion. Basically it is “BUT I already know Trump is a racist and supported the Nazis right after it happened, so what you say is BS!”
Only then does Emphyrio link to a VOX article that might be the evidence he’s failed to provide so far that would support his statement.
But the article doesn’t actually go back and look at what Trump said. It focuses on what he said recently about some of the folk there not being Nazis but supporters of the Lee statue quietly protesting. The article has one main argument- there were only Nazis and Supremacist protesting the statue, therefore Trump was supporting them- no matter what he said that he wasn’t including them but he just condemned them.
That, however, was the critique that Trump had of the press, that they assumed everyone was a Nazi or Supremacist and thus lumped them all in the same category.
Now could Trump have been wrong on that? Perhaps. I suspect he’s right and that there were non-Nazis and non-Supremacists there (maybe folk with implicit racism but not out and out racists explicitly.)
But even if he was wrong, that doesn’t mean he was saying Nazis and Supremacists are fine people. It just means he was wrong that there were others there who weren’t Nazis and Supremacists.
Now here’s the research. First Trumps first response was in a Tweet on Saturday, the day of the murder. When he made it the press went wild attacking him for waiting too long (he did it at noon) and not specifically saying Supremacists.
So, two hours later Trump went live to speak.
This was a great statement against bigotry and hatred. But because he said there was ‘violence on both sides’ the press went after him again.
So on Monday, the 14th, he made a brief statement.
Two things stand out to me. First he connects the growing racism with the economic problems workers face and so speaks about his attempts to bring jobs back to the US. The press tended to attack him for that as diverting the conversation.
Second he repeated what he said on Saturday, including an almost exact phrase of condemning bigotry. "“We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of bigotry, hatred, and violence.” (On Saturday he had the order as “hatred, bigotry, and violence.”)
But this time he was more explicit about that bigotry: the KKK, NeoNazis, and White Supremacists. He also left out the “many sides.”
In the past many times when Trump’s supposed support of Nazis has come up I have posted about what we’d want a President to have said. I have only gotten support on this and things like “If only” we had a President who said things like that.
The truth is I took Trump’s statement of the 14th and edited it down, taking out some stuff that made it clear it was the President as he talked about what the admistration was doing and some of the very Trumpian phrases. Here’s one example of me posting that:
(That was long before I saw Coffey’s video. It was due to my own research.)
Then on Tuesday, the 15th, he had a press conference, which is what Coffey was discussing and which I declared previoulsy that I had sought it out and watched the raw video of it. Note that the first 7 minutes and 32 seconds or so are about Infrastructure. After that point it is about Charlottesville mainly with I think one question about Infrastructure and the Economy
At 15 minutes and 15 seconds or so he clearly says he’s understands that not all the people at Charlottesville protesting the removal of the statue were Nazis or Supremacists. This is before the infamous “Very fine people on both sides.” That comes at about 18 minutes and 36 seconds or so. He says it after he said there were bad people in that group protesting but not all, and here when he says that there were fine people on the protesting removing the statue side he goes on to include there being fine people among the counter protestors.
It is at 19 minutes and 27 seconds that he is very explicit as he repeats the fine people assertion, saying, “You have people, and I’m not talking about the Neo-Nazis and the White Nationalists, because they should be condemned totally, but you had many people in that group other than Neo-Nazis and White Nationalists, okay, and the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.”
A reporter, unable to comprehend this says, “You were saying the press has treated White Nationalist unfairly, I don’t understand what you are saying?”
Trump repeats his assertion that there were people who innocently were there to just protest the taking down of the statue, again being clear that there were also bad people in that group who did terrible things.
Let me say why this a concern to me. One thing Trump says over and over is that we need to come together. I agree. But politics are about dividing us.
I don’t want us to come together to support most of Trump’s agenda. I hate most of Trump’s agenda. I am for open borders. I am for welcoming immigrants and refugees and those seeking assylum. I am for progressive taxes. I am for getting off fossil fuels and acting to stop Climate Change. I am for LGBTQ rights. I am for peace with Venezuela and Iran.
I believe people who might wear a MAGA hat, people who might think it’s wrong to get rid of statues of Lee, people who hold conservative politics are NOT all Nazis and Deplorables and Inbred Red Necks to be made fun of and White Supremacists to be hated and despised and dismissed. I believe that Trump was right that there are many fine people in that group and some are my friends and some could be won over to support a Progressive nominee for President and Progressive policies.
But this narrative that Trump supported the Nazis and that all his supporters are just Nazis doesn’t help that.
Trump did not say Nazis are fine people. Let’s stop asserting things that aren’t so.
Instead let’s focus on stuff Trump is actually doing that are seriously wrong- like his administration charging Assange with 17 violations of the Espionage Act for being a publisher or for attempting a fascist coup in Venezuela and arresting the Embassy Protectors or for threatening to go to war with Iran.
Thanks to you LibWing for taking the time to respond with such detail and honesty - my respect. I did some reading on the timeline of statements and actions as well. I guess the details can be seen and often based on ones politics and beliefs, or prejudices, sometimes reading beyond the actual words, to what seems to be the political agenda of trump in this case - what he does in other incidents.
His statement on “very fine people” after the murder of Heather Heyer was thoughtless at best, and defensive of right-wing groups generally at worst. My interpretation was he was actually supportive of what seemed to be the vast majority of the rightist group in Charlottesville and why they were there in the first place, pandering for their support, along with “his base”… He is not known for his good moral judgment or considered thoughts and words.
I also saw the removal of the Lee statue in a more nuanced way, as a historical “point in time” reference or sense that would/could have been perhaps more effective staying in place to become a teaching tool, rather than a rallying point for extremist right views - I don’t believe in book-burning either.
I saw the defense of trump by Tom Coffey (I couldn’t find his name tho I tried) as ignoring the unite march organizers clear intentions and overt message, and trumps seeming defense of them, including the groups he later mentioned/claimed as not being included in his “clarification”… What I consider trumps general racism in other actions/events like Puerto Rico, the southern border wall and people/children seeking asylum, Muslim refugees, pattern of Iran provocations and economic warfare, and Venezuela Cuban relations, all with a foundation of racism rather than right-wing ideology, were also on my mind. too many of trumps advisers and cabinet seem also of the same de facto racist mindset.
Frankly I don;t believe a damn word he says and hold nothing but contempt for everything he does. Cannot see him as truly meaning ’ we must condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. let’s come together as one" as anything other than another lie when that hatred is most of what he brings to the table!
One timeline on Charlottesville that seemed accurate was this: