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The Sanders and Trump Insurgencies: What's Next?


#1

The Sanders and Trump Insurgencies: What's Next?

Ralph Nader

It is not often that Democratic and Republican insurgent candidates for President achieve such prominence and maintain staying power against the establishment “pols” of the two party duopoly that manages elections for the plutocracy that finances campaigns. The media are taking the insurgents seriously, which means that the polls are being done regularly on candidate positions and candidate match ups with other primary candidates.


#3

Bernie, like Ralph, Educates through Honesty.


#4

I hope that Bernie really comes out swinging, more than he already has, and lets Trump, Hillary, et al, hear it. Now is not the time for playing it safe. He needs to show his chops and put his true stamp on this campaign. I believe he will. Then we need to hold him to whatever he stands for...


#5

"Senator Sanders will need more prominence if he really wants to overtake Clinton. Making good on his promise to endorse the eventual Democratic nominee would mean to his followers a ripe opportunity to get the winner of the Democratic Primary to specifically endorse much of the Sanders agenda beforehand."

What a way to start a Saturday morning, phew! Ralph has apparently bought into all the Green and Bernie haters' shibboleths. Ralph, the haters have been saying all along that Bernie is a sheep dog, a herder for Hillary, and you seem to endorse such nonsense. Ralph sounds a lot like Chris Hedges here, and so it goes.

"... to his followers a ripe opportunity..." Really Ralph? I don't think Ralph as a clue as to the kind of people who are his "followers."

The headline is the clue, "Sanders and Trump" in comparative essays by leading lights inevitably leads to lame and depressing conclusions, as in this essay. ( I think of Kuttner and Greider here)

Hillary will be able to say, I aped, I mimed, and he lost.


#6

Ralph, you have been a great voice for the interests of regular Americans. Now it is time for you to choose sides, speak out and add your name to the great campaign, the great movement that Bernie is conjuring forth. You have given the benefit of your critique - but now the clock's running out. Now it's time for you to get off the pot, step out of your role as the eternal outsider and make a public endorsement. Now!

And call on all your supporters to do the same and throw themselves into the battle!

If we lose this one we are not likely to get another chance! The door is swinging shut as we are rushing through it.

Best wishes


#7

When Nader scored victories against big money during the sixties and early seventies the 1% decided he was a progressive that was too successful and their media proceeded to turn him in to a pariah. Just as their media finished Nader off, Jimmy Carter came along and the media did the same thing to him just in time to start the Raygun Revolution. The rest is history.


#8

The GOP has two choices: 1) nominate Trump and they have a chance against the Democrats in the November election, or 2) don't nominate Trump and Trump the third party candidate will take enough GOP voters with him to assure the Democrats win in November. Although Trump has said he would not run third party, he is too deep into the 2016 election to not run.


#9

gee, three edits and it's still incomprehensible...


#10

What don't you understand, maybe I can help you.


#11

"Then we need to hold him to what he says he stands for...."

Please, haven't we hoped for change long enough?


#12

Obama hoping all over again! "Fool us once....." No, it is time for millions of people to take to the streets demanding peace, demanding equal justice for all and the prosecution of those responsible for the US invasion of Iraq, torture, etc., the break up of all too big too fail corporations (including banks and investment companies), a real discussion on capitalism as a viable economic system in a world whose resources is growing ever smaller and a population growing ever larger in numbers with an ever increasing the appetite for their share of the "gold", and an all hands on deck serious attention given to the battle of all battles, human caused climate change. These are but some of the issues that all Americans have a guaranteed right to take to the streets to demand from our "elected" officials. Hope for change has become a stale product on the shelves of government.


#15

"Insurgency" isn't the word I would use. When defining Sen. Sanders' "rebellion against the political establishment," skip the sales pitch to check the facts. Sanders is a Democrat. He used to speak out powerfully about US poverty and the need for legit poverty relief programs (it's impossible to save/rebuild the middle class without shoring up the poor, and without a middle class, the US economy collapses). This doesn't sell to today's middle class campaign donors, so he dumped the poor.

Liberals have spent the years of another administration promoting the notion that if we increase the wealth and security of the middle class, something will trickle down to the poor. Right...


#16

If you read my post, I believe I said nothing about "hoping" that Bernie would DO anything FOR us; we have to MAKE HIM DO IT. If we don't push, and push consistently for what we want, nothing will get done, regardless of who is in the white house.
That aside, what is your answer to all this? Protesting is a good idea; getting out in the streets is, too. But realistically, not everyone can do that, especially more than a few times.


#17

What did Obama lie about? When campaigning,. he presented his ideas, his priorities, and what he would work to accomplish. He did, indeed, pursue what he said he would pursue. Congress (the rt. wing of the Dem Party included) shot down one progressive proposal after another. Obama is a president, not a dictator, and Congress makes most of the decisions.

Grownups didn't expect Obama to deliver rainbows and unicorns. As a candidate, Obama stressed that nothing could change unless the people somehow united, got to their feet, and actually DEMANDED those changes from Congress. That almost began to happen with Occupy. But wouldn't you know it, before we even had time to catch our breath, Occupy was redefined -- by Dem pols and liberal media -- as just another pep rally for the middle class. The rest of us -- the poor, and those who get why unrelieved poverty is such a critical issue -- walked away. On war -- not exactly seeing masses of people marching in streets, demanding an end to war.


#19

Too late. How would you define "equal justice" for the jobless poor, and many of the unemployable? Take to the streets? For what? Think back to Occupy. What began as an extraordinary people's movement was quickly redefined -- by Dem pols and liberal media -- as a middle class movement alone. The rest of us -- the poor, and those who get why unrelieved poverty matters -- walked away.

Face it, this generation so strongly believes in the success of the corporate state that they think everyone is able to work, there are jobs for all, therefore no need for poverty relief. Liberals devoted the years of this administration to merely maintaining a pep rally for the middle class, tossing in an occasional "Black Lives Matter". On people hitting the streets, Monday is another work day, and how many of us can risk losing our jobs? There's nothing to fall back on.


#21

Another put-down, without backup.
In other news, I am about to sign a petition I got from Sanders about getting equal time in the corporate media, but I felt I should first point out to people here that his petition addresses only HIS campaign, and DOES NOT MENTION 3rd party campaigns, (that he could point out, often bring important issues to public attention).
So Sanders is NOT showing solidarity for the democratic rights of OTHER groups and individuals to be heard, and THE RIGHT OF THE PUBLIC TO HEAR THE FULL SPECTRUM OF IDEAS.
From his petition: "Bernie (my emphasis) must receive the same level of coverage on the nightly news as other leading candidates." (No mention of Greens, socialist groups, Libertarians...) Fairness only for Bernie.
Recently on this site, I challenged Sanders' supporters to sign Jill Stein's petition for equal time on Saturday Night Live. Stein's petition states: "...other qualified presidential candidates like Jill Stein should get the same opportunity."
"It's time to stop accepting the corporate media's lockout of independent candidates, and start demanding equal time."
"Jill Stein is every bit as serious a candidate as Donald Trump. All (my emphasis) candidates should be provided equal access to our public airwaves. That is what real democracy would look like."
I appealed to people on this site to sign Jill Stein's petition, but got no reply in favor of such fairness.
I will sign, and post Sanders' petition. I will again post Stein's petition. Can I get a reply saying yes, we should sign BOTH petitions? Can Democrats be democratic?
https://go.berniesanders.com/page/s/corporate-media?source=em151212full
http://www.jill2016.com/nbcequaltime
Fairness, please!


#24

Yes, we have hoped for change long enough.

Now we need to work for it.

Sanders for President Event Search


#25

“We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it and stop there lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove lid again and that is well but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore.”

― Mark Twain


#26

That is, quite simply, a lie.

"Obviously ISIS and terrorism are a huge national issue that we've got to address, but so is poverty, so is unemployment, so is education, so is health care."

Bernie Sanders, Dec. 8th 2015


#27

I still don't see any reply from you that you will sign for equal time- for BOTH.
I also never see a decent reply about Sanders' pledge to SUPPORT CLINTON, or his support for "our" genocides abroad, which fuel the hatred against us, which then is used to spend our money on MORE bogus wars instead of human needs... and then repression.
I hear the same arguments every 4 years:
"Support LBJ, or we'll get that war-monger Goldwater!"
(LBJ was a war-monger.)
"It'll be different this time- give Bill Clinton a chance."
(He presided over the genocidal sanctions in Iraq- do I have to quote Madeleine Albright again? -over 500,000 dead kids- "...we think the price is worth it.")
He bombed Yugoslavia for the sake of the "Free Market",
causing an environmental disaster on the Danube...
Clinton virtually destroyed Welfare, (that disabled people need while waiting interminably for a decision from Social Security, not to mention single mothers who need help since a husband or boyfriend died or disappeared, or can't find a job...)
Clinton gave us NAFTA, GATT, and the WTO, the predecessors to TPP, TTIP, TISA, CISA, ad destructum infinitum...
"I feel your pain" he said. Yeah right.
So after that, "Democrats" sit out the next election, and blame Nader for Gore allowing Bush to win, RATHER THAN BUILD A NON-CORPORATE PARTY.
"Oh, it'll be better this time- Obama says he's against "dumb wars". Seems he's OK with intelligent, evil wars, NSA spying, repressing dissidents like Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden, Rev. Pinkney, Leonard Peltier, Mumia abu-Jamal...
And still no WPA/CCC jobs programs- "We just don't have the money." (While bailing out Wall St., and starting yet more wars... How would you like to be one of the civilian victims of our wars? )
Too many Americans focus on PERSONALITY, and don't understand the more abstract, but MORE IMPORTANT:
THE NATURE OF OUR INSTITUTIONS.
What is the classification of the "Democratic" party?
Is it a socialist party? Is it non-corporate, as Sanders calls himself?
Or is the Democratic party a corporate party? Ask any of its leaders- what is the economic philosophy of the party.
"Free enterprise, capitalism", is the answer.
You should ask yourself: why is a "socialist" bringing people back into a capitalist party? Something doesn't compute, especially when he says he likes, and respects Hillary Clinton! And says he will support her (the OVERT war-monger!) if/when she takes the Dems' nomination.
So WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN SANDERS TELLS YOU TO CAMPAIGN FOR CLINTON?
Same thing again, "Well, at least Hillary isn't a Republican..." (May as well be!)
Lesser Evilism again, been done for the past umpty decades, and where are we? We could have had a serious contending party by now, but for the narrow thinking of "We have to win THIS election".
With any of these corporate candidates, including Bernie- herding people back into a corporate party - WE ALL LOSE.
You are not realistic if you think you can change the corporate nature of the "Democratic" party. People have been trying for more than a century. It is thoroughly entrenched as a corporate party.
Your passion is misplaced. You should be using your energy reading different socialist publications, and the classics, to EDUCATE YOURSELF, SO THAT YOU CAN EDUCATE OTHERS, and pull people OUT of BOTH corporate parties, and BUILD SOMETHING POSITIVE!
"Lesser evil" is STILL EVIL. Put yourself in the shoes of the poor people on the ground in the Middle East, Ukraine, or on the street in this country.
Every election, I see the same short term thinking. It WILL take time to build a new party. BUT IT MUST BE DONE.
You are hoping for a short-cut. That's understandable, considering the encroaching environmental changes that could produce extinction.
Short term thinking, like thinking you are going to win this election, when you should be building movements, and a party that is REALLY on the side of those movements-
Short term thought and action, mean our downfall.
I've been an activist for over 50 years, and have been ahead of the curve on many issues. Occasionally, someone will tell me "I should have listened to you a few years ago."
How about listening and learning? Can you do it?