Home | About | Donate

The Trump-Russia Story Is Coming Together. Here's How to Make Sense of It


#1

The Trump-Russia Story Is Coming Together. Here's How to Make Sense of It

Bill Moyers, Steven Harper

"Everything the Trump campaign told you about the connections between Trump and Russia was a lie."


#2

Reflecting on Trump reminds me of an aphorism I developed for my students:

Truth is finite, but anti-truth is infinite.


#3

What a load of crap this interview is.

Most of it is nothing but the conjecture of a man who hates Putin. The few actual bits of evidence brought up are distorted.

  1. Trump Jr. did not meet with Russians with ties to the Kremlin who wanted to give him dirt on Hillary. He met with a British rock music promoter working in Russia with no ties to the Kremlin who lied to him that a lawyer who wanted to talk about orphans was actually a Kremlin insider with dirt on Hillary. But she wasn’t.

  2. Papadopolous did not even meet with any Russians. He spoke with a Maltese man who is a professor in a Scottish University who never promised anything about emails that Russia had. Papadopolous, a known serial liar, (he was indicted on that,) never said a word to higher ups in the campaign about this claim that he never said to another person until he made a deal with the FBI.

  3. Manafort was indicted on lobbying for the Ukraine government without registering and money laundering. Horrors! This was long before he was the manager of the Trump campaign. But guess who his partner in this was? The Podesta Group, John Podesta’s lobbying group, and John Podesta was Hillary’s campaign manager. If Manafort’s crimes taint Trump, than Podesta’s traints Hillary. But this part of the story is left out. (Where are you, Paul Harvey, when we need you now?)

But Harper distorts these to be that we know now that Trump people were meeting with Russians with Kremlin ties promising dirt on Hillary. Yes, Trump jr. thought he was doing that. He wasn’t. Yes, Papadopolous lied that he was doing that. He wasn’t. Yes, Manafort worked for a Russian friendly Ukraine president. But he didn’t do it alone, Podesta did it too.

Are Trump and his people a bunch of despicable, lying, cheats? Sure.

But there is no evidence that the Kremlin was attempting any of this.

I’m very disappointed in you, Bill Moyers. For a while I thought you were a true progressive. Turns out you were, like you were in the 1960s when you lied to America for LBJ’s war, all along nothing but a apparatchik for the established Democratic Party. It’s just that during the Bush administration you did that duty by acting like a progressive.


#4

Trump should be held accountable for actual corruption or actual violation of campaign finance laws - as should other candidates, the DNC, Wasserman-Schulz, etc.

The continued flogging of the “Putin did something to us story” in reality seems to be largely a CIA false flag, initiated by the CIA in Spring 2016, with CIA actors, CIA data thefts, a murder of Seth Rich, smears against perennial CIA nemesis Wikileaks, and a bunch of other nonsense that is being used to justify gigantic boosts in Pentagon spending and censorship of Indy Media/blogs etc. as “fake news”. Link to a collection of articles on alternative points of view and actual facts about this story (DNC hacking, Wikileaks, etc.): http://www.pearltrees.com/joshstern/election-hacking-interference/id18999752


#5

Delusion.


#6

please explain


#7

I’m not sure what the outcome of all of this will be, but I do know that after reading this the first thing that occurred to me was: “well, that’s 20 minutes of my life I’ll never get back.”


#8

This article, like the entire Russiagate narrative, is long on insinuation and short on substance. On the central claim, that Russia stole the election and Trump colluded with Putin to do it, there has been ZERO evidence proferred. I’m sick and tired of this CIA psy-op and the dumb liberals and others who take it seriously.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/11/17/brennan-and-clapper-elder-statesmen-or-serial-fabricators/


#9

Well, here’s an interesting start for you:

I also find it interesting the professor mentioned “thousands of emails” before anyone knew of the DNC breach, which wasn’t disclosed publicly until June 2016. But we’ll ignore that happy kink.

To me, the biggest thing is all the lies, continuous, revolving around the same topic. I’ll let Booman speak to this:


#10

Regardless of whether any of this Trump-Russian connection has substance, it creates the fantasy that all of a sudden, our sacred and pure elections have been violated by foreign powers and that this is some new and unprecedented attack on democracy, blah, blah, blah.

Total nonsense. Foreign powers have always worked behind the scenes in our national elections to further their own interests, not to mention that both of the major parties have had no hesitation, whatsoever, to use foreign sources to dig up dirt on opponents. They’ve been doing it for decades. Clinton supporters, themselves, went on such a foreign fishing expedition to dig up dirt on Trump in this last election.

To be sure, thanks to digitalization and the use of social media, it’s now easier than ever for foreign powers to play mind games with the American electorate, but that’s the price you play for running campaigns, digitally, in this global digital age. It’s now going to be par for the course in all future campaigns.

And let us not ignore the elephant in the room - the U.S. and its long, sordid and sometimes bloody history of interfering with campaigns in other countries. Putin and the Russians didn’t invent the idea of influencing elections in other countries, though that’s what loyalist Democrats would have you believe. He does make a dandy excuse, though, for their failures.


#11

I also find it interesting how journalistic standards have been thrown out the window in the Russiagate story. The claim that Russia “meddled” in the election is repeatedly reported as fact, when it is merely allegation–a violation of the most basic journalistic standards. Even the Intelligence Community Assessment that was released in the waning days of the Obama administration did not put forth that charge as irrefutable fact, as the article I posted by Mike Whitney earlier shows.


#12

And you know all of this how?

And, I take exception to your criticism of Moyers. He has always been much more progressive than most who have a nationally recognized standing. So what if the man isn’t 100% pure progressive by your definition? He has been, and is, a stalwart champion of liberal/progressive viewpoints and an honest respected journalist.


#13

Many words; little substance. I smell a russophobe/Putinphobe.


#14

I think that this Russia-bashing is pure propaganda. It seemed to me last year and still seems to me now that the demonization of Russia is an excuse to shut down free speech and I wrote this article explaining my view… https://turningpointnews.org/exposing-political-corruption/the-real-purpose-of-the-russian-scare-to-restrict-free-speech


#17

I heard Mr. Harding interviewed on Fresh Air recently and everything he said in the first twenty minutes was either inaccurate or speculation. Of course Terry Gross accepted it all without question. I then turned it off.

I will be very happy if Trump goes down but stoking a war with Russia is dangerous, childish and plain stupid. The “liberals” are just being used.

Peace
Po


#18

His timeline doesn’t mention contrary points of view, for example, the solid science which shows that what happened with the DNC so called “hacks” were not hacks but leaks. See:

In his 9th dedcade Bill Moyers is tarnishing his good reputation with this.


#19

That’s a bit of a stretch, Po. No one on here is “stoking a war” with Russia or anyone else, as far as I can tell. But when any foreign leader gains undue influence over our President, our policies or our elections, that is a serious matter. That does not make it a prelude to war, however.


#20

There are so many strands to deal with it is somewhat bewildering. But in the big picture it all adds up. Clearly Putin is trying to undermine Western democracies. The Russians through social media as well as hacking of the DNC according to our intelligence agencies and attempted intervention into numerous state election computers have interfered with elections here and they have been doing similar things in Europe. Diminishing the West is one way to elevate Russia and begin to return it to having the status it had during the USSR. And clearly Trump is a soft target. He is consumed with greed and having his name on tall buildings around the world. And it is strange that he would be thinking about being president several decades ago even though he has no experience in politics. He was interviewed on the floor of the Republican convention many years ago and claimed he had thoughts about being president. Everything fits. The motivation is there. The way Russia operates is consistent. And the dots seem to be connecting more and more.


#21

With the above as brief background, it is important to recognize that the neo-cons and a significant part of what everyone is now calling the “deep state” will take us up to one inch of a war with Russia until either Russia breaks up into smaller pieces or they get another Yeltsin back to loot the country like in the 1990’s. And that is very dangerous.

There is still no hard evidence that the DNC computers were “hacked”. See the video HisStory posted. Even if the DNC was hacked I am not convinced Clinton lost because the emails were released (most Americans didn’t read them) or, even more silly, because of some emojis on Twitter and because of some Facebook pages. The Clinton campaigns 1+ billion dollars in campaign spending should have nullified that. As for Trump being controlled by the gamma rays coming out of Putin’s eyes, I wouldn’t worry about that. The “deep state” has turned Trump on everything else. The NATO build up on Russia’s borders has continued under this administration as well.

It is all rather ironic in any case. The United States has intervened in elections all over the world, ousted democratically elected leaders, installed vicious dictators as well as dropping bombs on anyone it doesn’t like.

Peace
Po


#22

thanks for saying what i wanted to say